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Richie-Van-GTi

Wideband wiring test

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Richie-Van-GTi

Does anyone know what the voltages on a wideband lambda should be across pins with ignition on but engine off from the controller side of the loom?

Got some strange behaviour and trying to pin it down to controller or probe, i suspect the controller

 

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welshpug

Which kit?

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Richie-Van-GTi

Rm racing uego kit with bosch lsu4.9 probe.

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welshpug

adaptronic-lsu-49-connection.png

 

this is the closest I have found, I don't fully understand how a wideband works vs a traditional 4 wire :unsure:

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Richie-Van-GTi

Managed to speak to the supplier, he thinks the sensor died on the rolling road, he blamed a bad map, told him its off since the whole point of a wideband is to be able to tune a car, plus it wasnt that far out. He agreed to send a new sensor.

Reading up the number one killer is condensation on the tip when the heater comes on. Think i might fit a 1 minute timer somehow so it doesnt switch on until all the condensation has had chance to clear

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Thijs_Rallye
10 hours ago, welshpug said:

I don't fully understand how a wideband works vs a traditional 4 wire :unsure:

Lambda_poli.pdf

 

here :)

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Thijs_Rallye
17 hours ago, Richie-Van-GTi said:

Reading up the number one killer is condensation on the tip when the heater comes on. Think i might fit a 1 minute timer somehow so it doesnt switch on until all the condensation has had chance to clear

How is the controller switched at the moment? I have had good results with switching the controller on with the fuel pump, my wideband has been running fine for 6 years now.

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Richie-Van-GTi
2 hours ago, Thijs_Rallye said:

How is the controller switched at the moment? I have had good results with switching the controller on with the fuel pump, my wideband has been running fine for 6 years now.

Just normal switched live, i also have the permanent live switched through a relay. I could move it to the fuel pump relay as that is controlled by the ECU. Wouldnt help with condensation though. I think if it didnt heat until say 60 seconds after engine starting that would get rid of any condensation. Should be fairly easy to instal a timer through the switched live.

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Thijs_Rallye
18 hours ago, Richie-Van-GTi said:

Wouldnt help with condensation though. I think if it didnt heat until say 60 seconds after engine starting that would get rid of any condensation. 

It kinda depends on the controller heating strategy if the additional 60s delay is necessary (and tailpipe design / sensor location obviously). I've noticed my Zeitronix warms up the sensor carefully / relatively slowly so this has been working fine for the last couple of years.

 

Either way, make sure the counter only starts counting after the engine is running. Therefore I wouldn't use a switched live personally, but something that only is active with a running engine.

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Richie-Van-GTi
6 hours ago, Thijs_Rallye said:

It kinda depends on the controller heating strategy if the additional 60s delay is necessary (and tailpipe design / sensor location obviously). I've noticed my Zeitronix warms up the sensor carefully / relatively slowly so this has been working fine for the last couple of years.

 

Either way, make sure the counter only starts counting after the engine is running. Therefore I wouldn't use a switched live personally, but something that only is active with a running engine.

Im thinking a normally open relay with the earth connected to the oil switch so engine off it has no earth and therefore no power passes through to a timer module that jas the lambda switch live connected through it. That would allow me to switch ignition on without triggering the timer.

 

Im going to first check the sensor angle, i think its horizontal, i may be able to angle it downward so condensation naturally drips off as well.

 

Its just after the collector on a 4 branch manifold

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Thijs_Rallye

The sensor housing should be pointing slightly upward.

image.png.257adc7d35857231a811e6fd35801c97.png

 

Data Sheet_69034379_Lambda_Sensor_LSU_4.9.pdf

 

38 minutes ago, Richie-Van-GTi said:

Its just after the collector on a 4 branch manifold

That should normally be just fine.

Edited by Thijs_Rallye
typos

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wicked
On 5/21/2022 at 4:50 PM, Richie-Van-GTi said:

Managed to speak to the supplier, he thinks the sensor died on the rolling road, he blamed a bad map, told him its off since the whole point of a wideband is to be able to tune a car, plus it wasnt that far out. He agreed to send a new sensor.

Reading up the number one killer is condensation on the tip when the heater comes on. Think i might fit a 1 minute timer somehow so it doesnt switch on until all the condensation has had chance to clear

Maybe second killer is broken internals due letting the sensor drop on the floor. Then some ceramics break and the sensor will show inconsistent reading when it heats up. 

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Richie-Van-GTi
4 hours ago, Thijs_Rallye said:

The sensor housing should be pointing slightly upward.

image.png.257adc7d35857231a811e6fd35801c97.png

 

Data Sheet_69034379_Lambda_Sensor_LSU_4.9.pdf

 

That should normally be just fine.

Yes thats what ive been reading, 10 degree angle to prevent condensation collecting in the tip. I suspect mine is flat so need to check. If it is i will slice the pipe, rotate wand weld it back up, that or fit a second boss at the correct angle and put a bung in this one.

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petert

Dyno operators usually insist on using their own sensor, stuck up the tailpipe. Did this occur? And were initial AFR values the same?

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Richie-Van-GTi
2 hours ago, petert said:

Dyno operators usually insist on using their own sensor, stuck up the tailpipe. Did this occur? And were initial AFR values the same?

Yes and to begin with they were broadly the same but the wideband started to flicker to nonsense then after it had cooled down just wouldnt read anything.

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Thijs_Rallye

What also can help is point the tip of the sensor a bit downstream. If there is any condensation (or coolant :P ) the condensation is more likely to blow off the tip. I am positive I read it somewhere albeit Bosch doesn't mention it.

But in the case of Bosch don't forget the fact that OEM's actually test dew point calibrations and several sensor positions.

 

image.png.02ebb9834c8d53c52679a6c82ecac216.png

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wicked
2 hours ago, Richie-Van-GTi said:

Yes and to begin with they were broadly the same but the wideband started to flicker to nonsense then after it had cooled down just wouldnt read anything.

 

I had the same on rolling road; worked for a couple runs and then lost sensible readings. After replacing the sensor it was working fine again.  

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Richie-Van-GTi

Not the best photo but i suspect its a little less than 10 degrees but is angled down.

IMG20220526115707.jpg

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