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Joeygardiner12

Engine rebuild HELP !!!

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Joeygardiner12

So im currently rebuilding my 205 gti 1.9 XU engine but in comparison to other rebuilds ive done there seems to be a massive lack of technical information in the manual. Theres no information for camshaft bearing clearance. The manual just states to visually inspect the journals and caps.... no runout specs, endfloat or anything. Same goes for valves it doesnt state what the valve guides should be or their wear limits, doesnt state the valve stem wear limits either. Just says if you can wiggle them too much then replace them. How much is too much :unsure: i need numbers !  

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Leslie green

The exhaust valve guides are the ones that wear so id just replace those no matter what  , i got mine replaced and the engine shop said the inlets were fine and as for the cam bearings they run in the head so not much you can do if they are worn really is there plus they are line bored so you can't just put one of another engine in although in reality id imagine they are very close .

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petert

Finding someone to tunnel bore a head in Australia is becoming a thing of the past. Very few do it any more.

 

One thou per inch is fine on the crank. If the cam still turns, it's good to go.

Edited by petert

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Thijs_Rallye

I hope this will help.

Dimensions are in [mm], inlaat = intake, uitlaat = exhaust, nominaal = nominal, 1e reparatie = 1st oversize, 2e reparatie = 2nd oversize.

IMG_20220505_160429 (p00p).jpg

IMG_20220505_160545 (p00p).jpg

IMG_20220505_160517 (p00p).jpg

IMG_20220505_160534 (p00p).jpg

IMG_20220505_160624 (p00p).jpg

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Joeygardiner12

Thank you so much mate, to both of you two! Is there also any information regarding big end and small end dimensions ? I am currentley looking at a german manual on ebay which looks like it could be the one you have kindly shown me ! 

 

Surely there should still be a wear limit standard to the camshaft/cylinder head otherwise how would a mechanic know when it would be time to replace it aside from visual inspection ? 

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Thijs_Rallye
11 hours ago, Joeygardiner12 said:

Is there also any information regarding big end and small end dimensions ?

Yes, I will try to remember tonight and snap a few pictures. If you need anything more then please reply to this post :).

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pug_ham
18 hours ago, Joeygardiner12 said:

Is there also any information regarding big end and small end dimensions ? I am currentley looking at a german manual on ebay which looks like it could be the one you have kindly shown me ! 

I've just had a look through the Haynes manual downloads on 205gti.com

 

I think the Chapter_02d_Engine_removal_overhaul has the info you're after.

 

g

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Thijs_Rallye

Rods:

IMG_20220506_200457.thumb.jpg.727607d5f45320a621ec3436e82560f9.jpgIMG_20220506_200510.thumb.jpg.35ada2d5d9a973f434afdca41f55000b.jpg

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Thijs_Rallye

Crankshaft main bearings and rod bearings:

 

The lined note states that the big end and main bearing surfaces need to be polished after grinding.

The bearing size diameter is indicated at face E, where yellow (= geel) means between 59,981 <= ØB < 59.990 and green (=groen) means between 59.990 < ØB <=60.000

I can't find the equal or greater to and equal or smaller than sign on my pc for some reason.

IMG_20220506_200518.thumb.jpg.169cb2da6feeed79d0bee47a0eb951b5.jpgIMG_20220506_200528.thumb.jpg.ec80544e762b59701bed912a8ae0aee0.jpgIMG_20220506_200546.thumb.jpg.a0e17d9ac43a9db4097007dbc7b3ffce.jpgIMG_20220506_200536.thumb.jpg.08742c738befefb60ec1d5ff33d691b0.jpg

Edited by Thijs_Rallye

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Thijs_Rallye

The forum is giving me a hard time uploading it all. Rearranging pictures is a bit of a nightmare (reminds me of word), so I hope you will figure it out.

 

Bearing sizes (thrust) and big end bearing sizes.

 

Top bearing shells are all the same size, clearance is set with the bottom bearing.

Classes of the bearing shells are determined by the big end and / or main bearing diameter.

Running clearance of the bearing shells is between 0,038 [mm] and 0,062 [mm]

 

IMG_20220506_200652.thumb.jpg.877370fc8e990fe27162ece4e3f42876.jpgIMG_20220506_200625.thumb.jpg.83a5e56bc6d3a7bf211e477202b78787.jpgIMG_20220506_200618.thumb.jpg.aede2f7e174cee32571d9f832b6327bd.jpgIMG_20220506_200612.thumb.jpg.e885e57fc2500cf03eba2b2d7593e652.jpgIMG_20220506_200607.thumb.jpg.f83cb08c6d2f00e8513a14e87b8398f0.jpg

Edited by Thijs_Rallye

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Thijs_Rallye

Circled note: do not reuse the rod nuts but use new ones.

Klasse A = class A = blue

Class B = black

Class C = green

Class D = red

Onderste lagerschaal = bottom bearing shell

 

IMG_20220506_200739.thumb.jpg.861bf7f3c5693b5ecf7027ef3d4ccf3b.jpgIMG_20220506_200723.thumb.jpg.0079a3093f923af91ef202cc07a39b29.jpg

Edited by Thijs_Rallye
added a bit of translation

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Thijs_Rallye

IMG_20220506_200703.thumb.jpg.b2dea8010ff360edad7eedfecbdbfc80.jpgIMG_20220506_200659.thumb.jpg.8ac75790987ad167d3d3a6a62c75f497.jpg

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Joeygardiner12

Thats the haynes manual i have, it sadly doesn't state any dimensions for the connection rod big end and small end diameter. And thanks so much for all the pictures i now have the task of trying to read german haha,  i will post some pictures up of my rebuild. Yes i have read up on the bearing shell procedure strangley i cant find any barcode on my engine block or crankshaft which is strange. 

 

If you could dissect the german for me i would be most grateful, i need to know 

 

connection rod big end and small end standard wear limits

valve guide standard and wear limit 

valve steam wear limit ( upon measuring my exhausts i think i had a difference of 00.02mm from top to bottom ) so hopefully they are still usable. 

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Thijs_Rallye
30 minutes ago, Joeygardiner12 said:

german

Dutch ;)

 

The pictures and tables speak for themselves really, the interesting bits have been translated already in those posts.

30 minutes ago, Joeygardiner12 said:

connection rod big end and small end standard wear limits

  

 

30 minutes ago, Joeygardiner12 said:

valve guide standard and wear limit  

 

Worst case you will have to re-type some words in google translate. https://translate.google.com/?sl=nl&amp;tl=en&amp;op=translate

Edited by Thijs_Rallye

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Joeygardiner12
16 hours ago, Thijs_Rallye said:

Rods:

IMG_20220506_200457.thumb.jpg.727607d5f45320a621ec3436e82560f9.jpgIMG_20220506_200510.thumb.jpg.35ada2d5d9a973f434afdca41f55000b.jpg

Okay so say here for example it says nominal ( normal ) size for big end diameter. Is the +16mm oversize the limit on how much wear i would be allowed.  So for example 61.855 would be the max wear limit. Sorry its usually worded very different in English manuals. And ah dutch ! Fantastic country , cycled it all many years ago 

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DamirGTI

I've the same book as above in English ... if you cannot decipher Dutch .

 

D

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Thijs_Rallye

They state the standard sizes with a tolerance, so the rod big end diameter is 53.695 mm (DKZ) mm, which is the nominal size. Everything machined has a tolerance, so the size in this case can be +0.013mm but not smaller. I agree it isn't the most clear way of indicating.

 

The nominal big end journals diameters are 50 +0 -0.018mm

 

To determine if it needs to be ground you will have to measure the diameter of the big end journal and calculate with nominal bearings if your running clearance is within specification. Nominal bearing size for the DKZ is 1.833 ±0.005 mm.

 

 

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Joeygardiner12

Thank you so much for all your help. I will measure the rod big ends up tomorrow. Still need to determine how to find out what size bottom bearing shells i need as theres no barcode on the block or crank. I still have all the old bearings. Im pretty sure they have codes on so i could plastigauge them and if they are within good tolerence just replace them with the exact same ones, there was very minimal wear on any of the crank main journals only 00.01 or 00.02mm diffrence on one or two of them. 

 

Also it may be a language difference but just to make clear do you mean 00.13 should be the wear limit for the connection rod big end. 

 

53.695 standard machined size , the max amount of wear they can have is 00.13mm. 

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Thijs_Rallye
14 hours ago, Joeygardiner12 said:

53.695 standard machined size , the max amount of wear they can have is 00.13mm

No, that is the machined size when it was new. So anything between 59.695 and 59.708 mm is considered within in spec as it left from factory. They do not give a specific wear limit afaik.

 

So you will have to measure it all, take new bearings in consideration and calculate the running clearance. If you cannot reach the specified clearance you will "have to" grind the bearing journals to the first undersize.

 

Tbh, it might be a better idea to have a professional measure the crank, since Peugeot doesn't specify roundess either and most engine rebuild shops have loads of experience and have a pretty good understanding of what is ok and what is not.

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Joeygardiner12

No worries thanks so much for all your help. I have measured the runout and endfloat and they are both spot on, with the crank journals all having minimal wear i will feel okay installing it. Just have the joyus job of having to helicoil one of the head bolts first. Then i can measure up the bearings needed and get on rebuilding the bottom half.

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