Uprated outer CV (405) alternatives that clear PTS drop pins

[brumster 135 1 Cars]

Howdy all, long time no post... usual life excuses :) but looking to get the car going again.

 

Wanted to pick the brains of the parts experts who know the Peugeot/Citroen parts catalogue like the back of their hand :) !!

 

I have a challenge where I'm running 306 hubs on PTS-style lower arms which use a drop-pin on the lower outer joint to fit into a spherical joint on the arm. This pin has no problem on standard non-ABS 205 outer CVs as they have a good diagonally-machined shoulder on them.

 

I need to run something meatier, I've got some shafts with 405 outer CVs on them but they foul the pin - even if the ABS ring was removed; they have a much squarer shoulder on them.

 

Before I go exploring machining a shoulder on the CVs or having to think about alternative hubs or lower arm arrangements, is anyone aware of a suitable alternative to a 405 outer CV (needs to have the same shaft spline spec on the inside, and fit a 306 gti6 hub) but that maybe isn't for an ABS car and has a more generous clearance on the outer face of the cup where it sits up against the hub?

 

 

[brumster 135 1 Cars]

Thinking about this a bit more, experience tells me outer CVs tend to shear on the output spline rather than anything to do with the cup itself, so unless I go bigger on the actual output flange (ie. change the hub setup entirely) am I really going to see any difference over a standard large-bearing 205/309/306 CV shell (even if I have to grind the ABS teeth off one, which is what I did in the past) ? Probably not? So just purchase some new 306 outers and be done with it, worst case I just have a bit of grinding to do in removing the ABS teeth (most of the new stuff seems to be a clamped/crimped-on reluctor ring anyway so easily removed) ?

 

Maybe I'm making a mountain out of a molehill here - but if anyone has a suggestion for a good outer CV that'll take the 26mm 34-spline shaft input, and is generous on the clearance of the lower pin, then I'm all ears

Edited November 20, 2021 by brumster

[Tom Fenton 1,524]

How much head is on the pin??

[petert 549]

I use 405 CV joints. In addition to turning off the ABS ring, I taper turned the OD so it clears the pin. Alternatively, use the 406 ML CV joints. I'm not sure what Satchill fit to their shafts, but they do sell a driveshaft flange to adapt the ML CV joint to the BE hub.

Edited November 21, 2021 by petert

[brumster 135 1 Cars]

13 hours ago, Tom Fenton said:

How much head is on the pin??

Hiya chap added some pics for you...

Left is Shaftec 405 CV, middle is a non-ABS cup I use just to make a rolling chassis, right is an ABS cup that's been brutalised by the angry grinder.

8 hours ago, petert said:

I use 405 CV joints. In addition to turning off the ABS ring, I taper turned the OD so it clears the pin. Alternatively, use the 406 ML CV joints. I'm not sure what Satchill fit to their shafts, but they do sell a driveshaft flange to adapt the ML CV joint to the BE hub.

That's exactly what I had in mind but was unsure how much meat was there to keep them reliable. I think I'll give this a try first then; they are relatively inexpensive so it's worth a go - thanks Peter

 

Edited November 21, 2021 by brumster

[petert 549]

Best I could manage without taking a wheel off. You can see how I've turned it parallel to the head of the pin, with approx. 1mm of clearance.

[welshpug 1,621]

406 outers are all the same, its just the inners that change for be/me/ml.

 

I think I have seen a spacer uaed between the cv and the rear of the bearing with a 406 joint, they use an 8mm thick washer under the hub nut as standard so there's plenty of plined stub and thread to play with.

[petert 549]

7 hours ago, welshpug said:

 they use an 8mm thick washer under the hub nut as standard so there's plenty of plined stub and thread to play with.

Yes, I noticed the thread/spline is longer. I'll have to find/make some washers.

[brumster 135 1 Cars]

Just for my sake and zero ambiguity - are you saying 406 outers have a longer splined output stub, or are they identical to 405's so even with a spacer on the inside they still have plenty of output stub on them? I'm guessing 406 outers are the same as 405s right? Or no? Sorry, just checking!

[petert 549]

205/405 on the left, 406 on the right. The 406 CV is definitely bigger in diameter, not including the ABS ring. In the other pic, you can see why the 406 CV needs an 8mm spacer under the nut. I have no idea if they'll fit in my Group A hubs yet.

[petert 549]

I've been talking to Satchell Eng overnight. I didn't realise there are two ML CV's and thus why Satchell offer these drive flanges:
https://www.satchellengineering.co.uk/driveshafts/flanges.html

 

The 406 ML CV (in my pic above) fits a BE3 hub. However, there is also another version, as fitted to commercial vehicles, which has a larger spline again (+2.2mm). Thus the biggest/best combination is the Satchell flanges and the larger van/commercial ML CV's. Pic courtesy Satchell Eng.

[welshpug 1,621]

I had wondered which cv's they used which were bigger than 406!

 

indeed 406 cv's are bigger o.d, same spline as 205/306, but longer stub as illustrated by peter.

[brumster 135 1 Cars]

Aha, ok, that's very clear ta. I was aware of the commercial hubs from a mutual Oz-based friend who had plans a long time ago to do the same thing before he joined you in warmer climates  but didn't realise it was some type of 406 CVs that went into them.