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Steve205

Car serviced. Fluids changed. CTS changed. Slow to start. Misfires

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Steve205

Good afternoon all. 

Unfortunately I'm back again for advice. Following previous suggestions here I got coolant and gear oil changed to proper spec types.

Gear oil Peugeot 75W.

Proper IAT coolant.

Got a local garage to do it as I found difficult to do.  Also got coolant temp sensor (pictured) replaced at same time.

Car always started on button before they got it.  Idled poorly for a minute, but started instantly.  

When they returned it yesterday,  it nearly failed to start. It finally turned over but idled at about 500rpm. 

No acceleration when pedal pushed repeatedly. 

Oil pressure gauge stayed at minimum. 

None of this was case the day before.

Drove it straight back to garage when finally she fired correctly. Misfired a few times on way.

 

They now saying it could be Distributor. 

I was just looking for advice before talking to them Monday. 

Is it possible,  from above symptoms,  that they removed/knocked against HT leads when changing the CTS and replaced them incorrectly which is positioned under the Distributor. 

Want to have some idea what I'm talking about before seeing them. Car in garage 'til I go there Monday. 

 

It's '89 205 gti. 1.6.

 

Clutching at straws here. 

Any help/advice greatly appreciated. 

Stephen 

 

Screenshot_20210626-081639_Chrome.jpg

Edited by Steve205
Omitted info

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pugdamo

Have they still got the original coolant temp sensor? I was supplied one from a factors before and although they said it was listed correctly mine overfuelled like made, in the end they said it was the wrong sensor. If you can get hold of the original, put that back in, if it runs like it used to its the wrong sensor, if not its something else. 

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Steve205

I would guess the original is binned, not sure. Will check with them Monday.  I searched this forum through endless threads to get OE sensor number.  Can't put my hand on it now. Would anyone have OE number for coolant temperature sensor for 1989 205gti 1.6. I can cross check with Factors on Monday to be sure what I got was correct. 

 

Thanks

Stephen 

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Richard309Sri XU5JA 205GTi

I have a 309 1987 but it has the same engine as the 1.6 205 gti. XU5JA. 1989 should be the same. 

(if it is wrong please someone correct me**) 

 

I have part number printed on it :-

 

BOSCH 0 280 130 026 

 

(This is the Coolant temp sensor blue NTC(negative Temp. coefficient) just to make sure I am telling the right part. I have the blue color. The plug that goes into it is blue). 

 

I'll double check later this evening** just to make sure that mine is the same engine and that this is the correct part. I don't have the peugeot part number to hand, just as I am working on my engine I have a spare coolant sensor with housing and I can see the number printed on. 

 

Actually also I bought a replacement one on ebay; not original bosch aftermarket one;total c**p, didn't last in the car although it tested the right ohms on the bench and in hot water the resistance went down as it should before fitting then it just stopped working altogether after a week. There are lots of dodgy ones around. 

Edited by Richard309Sri XU5JA 205GTi

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Steve205

Thanks for that information pugdamo and Richard. As far as I recall that is Bosch part I got. Will double check. This phase 1.5/2 changeover time is headwrecking sometimes. Just pulled my logbook here.

It states my car  is a

 

1989. 1.6gti.  105hp. 

 

It was first registered on 1st  Jan '89

 

If that corresponds to your engine equivalent Richard? 

 

Thanks again. 

Stephen 

Edited by Steve205
Error

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Richard309Sri XU5JA 205GTi

No worries :) 

 

ah right ok, I just double checked my reference manual and the part number for 1.6 105Hp -yours and mine 115 Hp 1.6 XU5J/JA is 

 

BOSCH 0 280 130 025 -  for 1.6 XU5J and XU5JA. 205 engines. 

 

I have the 1.6 115HP XU5JA, but checking the ref. it should be the same for the 105 and 115 HP 1.6L XU5J/JA. you have got the XU5J (I don't know what gives the extra 10Hp?) I thought for a second as yours is 1989 I have got this wrong but it is the same sensor for the 115hp and 105Hp 1.6 so it doesn't matter.thinking as yours is two years older but I think they still made the 105hp version as well as the xu5ja. maybe it is because it is in the 309.  

 

&so sorry apology I made a mistake above.  That part I gave must be for the 1.9 GTi.

I bought the housing off ebay didnt realise they are different. They look identical so easy to make mistake. 

 

Somewhere there is a graph of the readings you should get with the Sensor. 

Obviously it's like a negative exponential curve. Maybe it is here somewhere on the forum or someone knows where to find it. Or it is in the Haynes manual. It should show the resistance falling with temp. I checked mine with a mutli-meter and a cup of boiling water just to make sure. It started like 2.5 kOhms then went to about 600 ish Ohms at 100degress but that is very roughly. 

 

 

As per Pugdamo above, because the sensor is a negative exponential NTC if it is wrong/faulty it floods the engine like a sinking ship. I had a lot of problems getting mine to start because of this. It turned my oil into liquid black petrol.  

 

I think with a nice warn engine it should be 300 Ohms? someone on here will know more than me.  

 

Sorry about that being one number out I have to blame the person on ebay for not telling me it was the 1.9 version. (sorry it's got a bit long message also LoL) 

 

 

 

Edited by Richard309Sri XU5JA 205GTi

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Richard309Sri XU5JA 205GTi

I just noticed you already had 0 280 130 026 as the part in your first post.

 

so

I have triple checked but it should be 0 280 130 025 for the 1.6 GTi 105 and 115 HP XU5J/XU5JA engines. 

I don't know how different 025 is from 026 but this might be really important.

025 for the LE 2 jetronic injection system;yes 1987 and 1989 would be LE2. 

 

I am not sure but IF the garage put in 0 280 130 026 this could be wrong and causing problems as I get 

that as for the 1.9GTi. XU9JA130 HP. not sure what part number they used? 

 

maybe someone can check my data that the 025 is correct? and how different they are. 

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Steve205

Hi Richard.

The Factors gave me 0280130026, I think, and I gave to garage to fit while changing fluids. Was hoping this was final piece in the idle/fuel efficiency saga. Previously had done all the rest. AFM, air pipe checks, SAD cleaning.  It seems the obvious answer that the CTS is incorrect.  It would be a huge coincidence that the dizzy would go same day. If car being over fueled by new sensor it accounts for all the timing issues etc since service. 

Will ring garage in morning with number Bosch  0280130025. It will be only €20 to hopefully find the fault. Appreciate the follow up all.

Stephen 

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welshpug

I thought all 8v gti and the 1.9 mi16 used '026'

Edited by welshpug

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welshpug

seems 025 and 026 cross reference to peugeot number 024246.

 

check its actually plugged in securely, on a pre 90 car with the sensor screwed into a separate housing they may have removed the afm for access if the standard afm position is retained, so ita worth checking the sad pipework and all the wiring, should not have needed to disturb the ignition system though there is a fly lead from the dizzy across towards the ignition amplifier and coil behind the battery

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DamirGTI

Right , Bosch *026 is the right temp. sensor for the both 1.6 and 1.9 (they're the same) , personally i've used other aftermarket sensors and on other cars brands/makes as well - no problems .

 

Could be temp. sensor wiring breaking off , if it was barely holding on prior to replacement unplugging/twisting/bending might've broken one of them completely now .

Or connector terminals might not be in full co0ntact with the sensor ie. pushed back .. peel off the rubber boot from the connector and see if any of the two wires terminals are pushed back or if there's broken wire (multimeter continuity testing from the CTS plug to the ECU plug would be best) .

 

Other possibility , they might've by accident mixed up the temp. sensor connector .. if the SAD connector is unplugged and was hanging around near , it's the same 2pin connector and it'll fit/plug in the temp. sensor , that one is black , CTS connector should be blue .

 

D

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DamirGTI

... ask them did they decided to remove the dizzy (complete or just the dizzy cap , or unplugging the signal cable) to gain access/working space for temp. sensor replacement .

 

D

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Richard309Sri XU5JA 205GTi

812610104_20210627_195446-Copy.thumb.jpg.394722107262823cba136dab035d25db.jpgre part number of CTS

sorry, yes,  you guys are correct.

 

sorry I didn't see a foot note at the bottom of the table in my french manual

- see attached photo.

 

it was originally *025 for 1.6 then replaced with *026 for all, 1.6 and 1.9 but it doesnt say when it was changed. 

 

sorry I missed that at a glance. 

 

I agree with what Damir and welsh pug said above. I have got some other ideas but won't write them all here yet as it will be too long and you might be able to resolve this without that info., if the connection to the CTS is not working, loose connection, loose pins etc. as suggested.

 

hope it might be resolved for you tomorrow. 

 

 

Edited by Richard309Sri XU5JA 205GTi
forgot the photo.

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Steve205

Update.

Good evening all.

Got onto garage this morning. 

Told them what I thought would rectify situation after my info received from this site.

They rang me this evening to say;

 

They checked wiring on plug. It was good. 

They checked ht leads. They were correctly attached. 

They removed new sensor and replaced old one.

Car started 1st turn and after throttle being feathered for 30 secs she idled ok. 

So back to square one. 

I am collecting car in morning.  

Will let you know if all is not well. 

It is either wrong sensor or a faulty one. It was as stated Bosch 026.

Thanks for advice again. Really appreciate it. 

Stephen 

Edited by Steve205

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