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28hodge

205GTI rally car barn find

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28hodge

So, I have a thread running here for a my 1985 rally car that I bought about 2.5 years ago, I went looking for a 1985 or early so that we could use it for historic stuff in Cat4.

 

 

So that car showed up in Glasgow, a 5hr round trip, not a nightmare. It had suffered a roll but was in decent shape and a solid enough base but would need work, including a fresh roof panel. The work stalled on it a little due to work and bits but I kept looking for a 3 door non sunroof or donor car and until I had that I just slowly did bits and sourced parts.

 

So whilst on my hunt for a roof I got told about a guy that had a couple 205’s in his agricultural buildings (I was at a kids bday party and my mate mentioned it) anyway 2 weeks ago I wondered down to the yard which is about 2 miles from my house and had an ask.

 

Turns out he had 3 205’s a couple stdt’s and then a B reg 1.6gti rally car that had done the 1994 RAC rally. The guy had bought it and used it once on a night rally, had a small of and a small half roll then parked it and left it for 25 years in his barn, until about 12months ago when he had to move it outside sheeted over but with no windscreen in it?

 

Randomly when I did a little digging I found out it was owned and did the RAC rally in 1994 by a guy I’ve known for years and was actually my boss about 12 years ago, so having rung him I found out it was built from a mint which turns out to have been a GL shell with all new PTS group N bits. It was built purely for the RAC and that was its first event as a new build car and finished 3rd in N2. He then did the Pirelli in it and had a small off in Pundershaw where he rolled it gently over some brash it landed on its wheels but they couldn’t get it out, so they retired but where pulled out and drove out the stage.

 

He then sold it and from what I can tell it was repaired and used for a couple night rallies, suffered a slight roll again (running theme here with me buying previously rolled 205 rally cars!!) then put in a clean dry workshop and left………for about 20 years!

 

The shell, despite spending the last 12-18moths outside sheeted over, minus its windscreen is so solid, there is so little rust anywhere, I had thought it was a GTI on the logbook but its not, but to be honest I bet lots of rally cars aren’t or have been re-shelled into base model cars but with the identity swapped etc. My other car in the other thread is a GTI on the logbook, but in truth is in way worse condition than this.

 

I couldn't not buy this, it looks ropey but the main shell has basically no rust, its seam welded and has all the PTS stuff thats hard to get now. The cage needs to come out and have a quick sand down and be repainted and the interior needs to come out be cleaned and refit plus a cambelt kit and then see what we have.

 

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28hodge

I've had a couple weeks off from the cars as we had a baby on the 17th so I've done small bits here and there mainly on the B reg car as it is at home in the garage whereas the C reg is away from home at my dads in the workshop.

 

Ive taken all the interior out and washed and cleaned it, more than once, to try and get the 20 odd years of muck and grime its accumulated off it (the ebayist will say I have washed the barn find dust off it and lessened its value!).

 

 9T5uc47.jpg

 

R1c1Uty.jpg

 

the cage is fine but has a lot of surface rust on it, so looks pretty tatty, I was a bit reticent to remove it as it looks to have been really well installed so is a really tight fit to the A pillars/roof etc, but there was no way i could repaint it in situ so it was going to have to come out.

 

I1axeZf.jpg

 

and after quite a few four letter words - 

 

Hax71PS.jpg

 

I've gone over it all with a polystrip disc which brought it up like new, then a quick rattle can paint job - 

 

Hk4Rdgn.jpg

 

Looks like new again, although refitting it means I'll need to give it a little touch up, but its never going to be, nor do I want it to be, a show car so if it looks ok from 10 yards then that'll do for me. 

 

The shell is so free from rust and corrosion though, the only area that needs some attention is one small spot on the floor, but as it did a couple gravel rallies this will be from being smacked by a rock etc, Plan is to get the car up in the air, hit it with a wire wheel and remove all the loose underseal and then treat it with some BiltHamber and then gravitax it.

 

Small hole that ive cut out and welded a patch back in.

KzBJW8z.jpg

 

I also ordered a drivers side headlamp panel as the one on it had been bent around a little so old one removed

RLmxIhK.jpg

 

and new one welded in.

EhDdrA7.jpg

 

Aim this week is to swap the wishbones out for the rose jointed ones i have and get the struts out and away to bilstein for a rebuild. whilst i have them out the way I'll strip the cambelt down see which one I need the 113 or 114 teeth belt and change the water pump belt and tensioner, I've turned it over by hand but there is no way I am attempting anything more without changing the belt.

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28hodge

Hmm, on with doing the Cam belt, all stripped down and as suspected it’s the spring tensioner so 113 tooth belt. Got one picked up today from the local motor factors but before I went to collect it I thought I would have a look and see which engine was in it the b6d or b6e.

It turns out it’s the D6B which is a 1.9 engine, well a 1.9 block at least, I have crudely measured the stroke with a piece of wire and marked it at TDC and bottom of stroke, but I’m not getting clear answer to be honest getting measurement from 78 to 85mm. I am right in thinking  1.6 is 73mm and 1.9 is 88mm?

Checked the AFM and ECU part numbers and the AFM ends 109 and ECU ends 359 so both 1.9 parts. However I have black injectors which don’t seem right, blue for 1.6 and yellow for 1.9 is what I thought? I also don’t have a sump spacer the sump connect direct to the block. I hope they left the 1.6 gearbox on it.

If I take the sump off can i/will I be able to see the crank and its part no to identify it as a 1.9 or 1.6 crank (I assume the crank and rods are different to create the additional stoke?)

The car was built up for the 1994 RAC (ie it wasn’t a gti that was taken in bits and modified for rallying, it was a collection of parts built into a car if that makes sense) so I could well believe that they had a good 1.9 block that they built up with 1.6 internals, but also knowing the guy it was built for I could also well believe it was built as a 1.9 and entered into the 1600 class! He has done worse than this as I suspect many others have.

Fun and games tonight though as ill change the belt and tensioner, belt seems straight forward enough but the tensioner looks a pig to get into to swap and compress the spring in a small space.

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Thijs_Rallye
29 minutes ago, 28hodge said:

black injectors

Those are 1.9 DFZ (105 hp) ones and flow more than the yellow ones. It can well be that it is a 105 1.9 DFZ engine, those came without spacer.

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28hodge
5 minutes ago, Thijs_Rallye said:

Those are 1.9 DFZ (105 hp) ones and flow more than the yellow ones. It can well be that it is a 105 1.9 DFZ engine, those came without spacer.

errrgh, the least powerful 1.9 engine, if you were going to cheat why use that engine! its the one from the cti i think? is that right?

 

I do hope its only got the black injectors and nothing else from that engine!

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Thijs_Rallye

CTi or 1.9 Rallye. Is the engine code tag gone? (which sits near the top of the alternator bracket)

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28hodge
28 minutes ago, Thijs_Rallye said:

CTi or 1.9 Rallye. Is the engine code tag gone? (which sits near the top of the alternator bracket)

Yeah it’s gone, just D6B tag riveted to the block behind the alternator. I’ll probably rebuild it to a 115bhp 1.6 spec. I’ll have a look to check as the engine will have been made up from parts I would of thought rather than being a complete engine just bolted in.

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DamirGTI

That riveted tag is in fact the engine code , if it says D6B on the tag means it's 1.9 128bhp (if it hasn't been messed with , which seems like yours is) .

 

If the engine or block internals turn out to be 1.9 DFZ bits and pieces (pistons with condors as an assembly specifically) , can make interesting engine with that if you combine 1.9 DFZ bottom end with the 1.9 D6B head or later 1.6 B6D head (was popular "rally mod" at the time ..)

 

1.9 DFZ low compression engine really isn't that bad , surely on paper the specs seem kinda crap , but in real life/driving experience you'd be surprised if tried driving one .

Also very good for budget turbocharging , if you happened to have complete engine bock and head .

 

D

 

 

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28hodge
12 hours ago, DamirGTI said:

That riveted tag is in fact the engine code , if it says D6B on the tag means it's 1.9 128bhp (if it hasn't been messed with , which seems like yours is) .

 

If the engine or block internals turn out to be 1.9 DFZ bits and pieces (pistons with condors as an assembly specifically) , can make interesting engine with that if you combine 1.9 DFZ bottom end with the 1.9 D6B head or later 1.6 B6D head (was popular "rally mod" at the time ..)

 

1.9 DFZ low compression engine really isn't that bad , surely on paper the specs seem kinda crap , but in real life/driving experience you'd be surprised if tried driving one .

Also very good for budget turbocharging , if you happened to have complete engine bock and head .

 

D

 

 

I'm hoping its an engine that been built to a 115bhp 1.6gti spec and just used a D6B block as they had one that was in good condition. the car was built by a rally preparation workshop back in the 90's specifically for the 1994 rac. it wasnt a car that was modified it was built from a good clean shell up using new parts and parts they had as they did a lot of peugeot 205 builds.

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28hodge

from this

Els4oCq.jpg

 

To this 

Zo4uYls.jpg

 

a polystrip disc some bilthamber and then prime and satin black. Passenger side next!

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28hodge

Slowly I am getting this progressed, I would like to try and have it out on either a local road rally at the end of Aug but if I can (and I don't think I can) I'd like to try and get it together for a rally test day on the 25th June. biggest issue with that is getting it blasted over in white in time.

 

So far I have done - 

 

Cambelt change

Sump off cleaned out and refit with new gaskets

Cage and interior out to clean up repaint and wash interior

Fitted seat mounts and re worked all the harness mounts as I didn't like them.

Removed the suspension which when looked at I thought was possible scrap, but having sent it to Skip Brown is now back and looks like new

Stripped the cracked filler from the sunroof plate and filled and sanded back

Refit 75% of the interior

Fitted the group A wishbones I had bought for my other 205

Removed and refit a fresh headlamp panel

 

 

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Suspension before being refurbed

 

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And after being put in the cleaner/hot bath a few times to get the collars and spring pans free enough to move stripped cleaned repainted new grpN rubbers and new SB gravel spings

 

FjcnwnP.jpg

 

 

I've still got a lot to do though. I need to fully torque up the crank pulley then refit the starter motor, fill it with all fluids and see if it will crank over and start then see what if any elec issues I have. Refit a windscreen (not my favourite job) re plumb all solid lines on the brakes (a job I for some reason really enjoy doing) change the gearbox oil, sort out the Nav side of the car and get the trip mounted and all the other things she needs over there, map light potti plug etc, wire the wipers and horn into the foot rest (switches are there but I can't locate the wiring for it so I am assuming its been removed at some point.

 

Oh and completely refit the entire front end, Wings, Bonnet (got a fibreglass one and a std) bumper, skirt etc.

 

Yeah I think June 25th for the test day is optimistic.

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