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Rorykeen

Nfz 10fx16

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Rorykeen

Hi, I recently bought a 205 Rallye from an auction, the car was advertised as std etc. It was delivered and the bits including engine were put away. I’ve just gone and looked today and the engine is wrong ! Gutted ! Can anyone tell me how to identify the head ? It looks right but now I’m not sure ? the carbs are right. Next question is, what’s the chances of finding a tu24 block ? The engine is a1.6 nfz10fx16, what’s my best option here ?

thanks 

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DamirGTI

Likely the head is still stock TU24 but the block is replaced with the iron TU 1.6 .. it's "popular" upgrade on Tu24 to reach around 120bhp by replacing the block .

 

 

I've done the reverse rebuild back to stock from the very same mod .. i have somewhere picture data from that job .

From memory , think the bolt pattern on the inlet side is different to all the rest of the TU's heads , valves are 8mm stems on TU24 .

 

Block is easy , base model 1.1 will do .. but the crank and the pistons are TU24 specific , conrods are the same as 1.1 .

 

 

D

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Rorykeen
Posted (edited)
41 minutes ago, DamirGTI said:

Likely the head is still stock TU24 but the block is replaced with the iron TU 1.6 .. it's "popular" upgrade on Tu24 to reach around 120bhp by replacing the block .

 

 

I've done the reverse rebuild back to stock from the very same mod .. i have somewhere picture data from that job .

From memory , think the bolt pattern on the inlet side is different to all the rest of the TU's heads , valves are 8mm stems on TU24 .

 

Block is easy , base model 1.1 will do .. but the crank and the pistons are TU24 specific , conrods are the same as 1.1 .

 

 

D

Thanks D, have you used the 1.1 block and replaced the crank ? not sure adding all the weight is an upgrade to be honest. If I can’t get the tu24 I think it’ll be a 1.4 alloy block so it looks original ! I have noticed the oil filter is n a different position on these different engines ?

Edited by Rorykeen

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DamirGTI
Posted (edited)

No , i rebuild it back again with all the TU24 stock parts .. luckily the previous owner who did the 1.6 block mod saved the original one , so the car came to me with all the needed TU24 parts to "reverse the mod" back to standard .

 

I tried driving it with both , 1.6 block and after the rebuild as standard ... as expected , with the 1.6 block it was more torquey and a bit dull performing , when back to standard was very rev happy and felt much lighter , power wise i really didn't felt any difference between the two to justify the 1.6 block added instead stock TU24 .

 

But need to note , when it had 1.6 block someone also added longer ratio box (16X65) ... and in the process of rebuilding back to "stock" i did some porting work on the head , did the multi angle valve seats , porting job on the entire inlet tract as well as the exhaust , rebuilt and adjusted/jetted the carbs , made stock spec short ratio box (14x60) , made/fixed the 4-2-1 divider in the exhaust .. thus that one wasn't 100% stock TU24 either !

 

Went nice , i really liked it ... not as fast as 1.9 GTi but the driving sensation/feel was excellent ! very light on the front , and liked to rev till the red line all the time . Like an proper weekend toy car for you to play all day long .

 

Can browse the parts catalogue to pinpoint which parts specifically are TU24 , and which can be sourced from other TU's :

 

http://www.miamistu.co.uk/pug/

 

TU24 block had an oil cooler (heat exchanger) .. will find pictures from that rebuild and post some so you can see the stock engine .

 

 

D

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by DamirGTI

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Rorykeen
17 minutes ago, DamirGTI said:

No , i rebuild it back again with all the TU24 stock parts .. luckily the previous owner who did the 1.6 block mod saved the original one , so the car came to me with all the needed TU24 parts to "reverse the mod" back to standard .

 

I tried driving it with both , 1.6 block and after the rebuild as standard ... as expected , with the 1.6 block it was more torquey and a bit dull performing , when back to standard was very rev happy and felt much lighter , power wise i really didn't felt any difference between the two to justify the 1.6 block added instead stock TU24 .

 

But need to note , when it had 1.6 block someone also added longer ratio box (16X65) ... and in the process of rebuilding back to "stock" i did some porting work on the head , did the multi angle valve seats , porting job on the entire inlet tract as well as the exhaust , rebuilt and adjusted/jetted the carbs , made stock spec short ratio box (14x60) , made/fixed the 4-2-1 divider in the exhaust .. thus that one wasn't 100% stock TU24 either !

 

Went nice , i really liked it ... not as fast as 1.9 GTi but the driving sensation/feel was excellent ! very light on the front , and liked to rev till the red line all the time . Like an proper weekend toy car for you to play all day long .

 

Can browse the parts catalogue to pinpoint which parts specifically are TU24 , and which can be sourced from other TU's :

 

http://www.miamistu.co.uk/pug/

 

TU24 block had an oil cooler (heat exchanger) .. will find pictures from that rebuild and post some so you can see the stock engine .

 

 

D

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks D, I’m just going to cross my fingers and hope I can find the Tu24. I’ll take a look at that, cheers 

Rory 

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DamirGTI

If possible yes , best to build it back to standard , as it's really an sweet engine .. entire package is spot on , makes you wonder why people even bother with some insane power/torque figures when you can have so much fun with much less .

 

D

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SRDT

The TU24 block is the basic TU9/TU1 one but the pistons and liners are specific, not cheap but at least you can find new ones:

https://www.retrautosport.com/ensemble-chemises-pistons-205-rallye-1-3-neuf-bretille-aprotec.html

 

The crank is a bit tricky, it's only used on the TU24 (205 Rallye, AX Sport) and the TU2J2 (106 Rallye).

Speaking of the TU2J2 it's not simply the same engine with injection, it is using a TU3 block and TU5 rods so it's the same concept but with other parts.

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Rorykeen
17 minutes ago, SRDT said:

The TU24 block is the basic TU9/TU1 one but the pistons and liners are specific, not cheap but at least you can find new ones:

https://www.retrautosport.com/ensemble-chemises-pistons-205-rallye-1-3-neuf-bretille-aprotec.html

 

The crank is a bit tricky, it's only used on the TU24 (205 Rallye, AX Sport) and the TU2J2 (106 Rallye).

Speaking of the TU2J2 it's not simply the same engine with injection, it is using a TU3 block and TU5 rods so it's the same concept but with other parts.

Thanks, so if not the tu24 the tu2j2 with my heads is the next best thing ?

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welshpug

nfz is a later 90 bhp tu5jp.

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Rorykeen
13 minutes ago, welshpug said:

nfz is a later 90 bhp tu5jp.

Mate there’s so many different codes on these psa engines ! It’s baffling 

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DamirGTI

Some pics of the TU24 bits :

2jPM1.jpg

2jPMn.jpg

22994530fbb5d700deb2a9ad6069d44d07454f5e.jpg

22893591aedb07a30b4cbcb69d65bf08873e8348.jpg

23244323b1a93d806b7c4c0b5b15b4706a300eb6.jpg

2300113886c99bd91719fd550db20808c171e970.jpg

23001132339cb0578e1af3d9101f1a2dd810a5e9.jpg

23244316c2eeac1728b246ad7892f645c491ee9a.jpg

232698405cc931b53cab41c65f530f95701b38c5.jpg

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DamirGTI

Pistons , 1.6 NFZ and TU24 (dished are 1.6 , domed 1.3 TU24) :

 

 

230076277bd3ca329d73f39f287bf4c70191bd11.jpg

23007628a65b62a1b0310a1da76de4891644f053.jpg

231496419c95256ed860c644ce838d0eb83a9f6e.jpg

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DamirGTI
Posted (edited)

Liners are still available from Goetze at around 40 quid per piece .. it's Goetze No. 14-638630-00 .

 

 

D

Edited by DamirGTI
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SRDT
12 hours ago, Rorykeen said:

Thanks, so if not the tu24 the tu2j2 with my heads is the next best thing ?

I don't know if the compression ratio is right with the TU24 head, you may need new pistons.

But if you need new pistons then you could also use the crank from the TU2J2 with a 1.1 block and rebuild a true TU24.

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Rorykeen
1 hour ago, SRDT said:

I don't know if the compression ratio is right with the TU24 head, you may need new pistons.

But if you need new pistons then you could also use the crank from the TU2J2 with a 1.1 block and rebuild a true TU24.

So the crank from the tu2j2 is the same as the tu24 but the pistons aren’t ? Are the tu24 pistons available to buy ? I’m really hoping an original tu24 turns up ! 

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SRDT

The TU2J2 is only sharing its cank with the TU24. It has a taller TU3 alloy block, TU5 rods and custom pistons.

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Rorykeen
4 hours ago, SRDT said:

The TU2J2 is only sharing its cank with the TU24. It has a taller TU3 alloy block, TU5 rods and custom pistons.

Thanks for all the info and advice guys, much appreciated. Unbelievably I got this today ! This engine was built a few years ago by a guy called Ray Payne (his last apparently) it’s not been ran at all and is old new ! The chap I bought it from lives a few miles from me so I got lucky, he said it will be running approx 150bhp and has uprated internals and head work etc. It was for his race car which he wrote off before this was fitted, cant wait to get this up and running now. I have a 1.6 engine with tu24 heads going spare if anyone’s interested.

B782A933-5DA2-4EAA-AE3A-49162845F2CE.jpeg

1B935BA3-BCAE-435C-9698-3F5C0E92D8FE.jpeg

835712A2-B12A-4977-ABD3-741C6CF964B2.jpeg

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Rorykeen
On 1/8/2021 at 10:31 PM, DamirGTI said:

Some pics of the TU24 bits :

2jPM1.jpg

2jPMn.jpg

22994530fbb5d700deb2a9ad6069d44d07454f5e.jpg

22893591aedb07a30b4cbcb69d65bf08873e8348.jpg

23244323b1a93d806b7c4c0b5b15b4706a300eb6.jpg

2300113886c99bd91719fd550db20808c171e970.jpg

23001132339cb0578e1af3d9101f1a2dd810a5e9.jpg

23244316c2eeac1728b246ad7892f645c491ee9a.jpg

232698405cc931b53cab41c65f530f95701b38c5.jpg

D the inlet manifold I have on this iron block is the same bolt pattern as yours, the one I’ve bought has six rather than 5 bolts ? I’m assuming this is a tu3 head ? Does anyone know of an adapter I can use or are all the other tu inlet manifolds the same on these heads ? Thanks guys 

Edited by Rorykeen

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DamirGTI
On 1/9/2021 at 8:28 PM, Rorykeen said:

 

835712A2-B12A-4977-ABD3-741C6CF964B2.jpeg

 

 

Indeed this one is std. "economy" head , not a TU24 ... i wonder if the whole engine is also , something else but TU24 ?

 

 

Take the head off and inspect what you've got there , apart from the bolt pattern on the inlet i think the port spacing itself is also unique on the TU24 .. sadly i've lost majority of the "in detail" photos of that TU24 project when my HD went bust with the lot of the project data stuff .

 

8mm valve stems are giveaway for detecting the TU24 head (all the rest are 7mm) , there should also be paint ring/mark on the camshaft which is TU24 item specific but i really cannot remember the position of the markings as it's been a while since i made that engine .

However i still have one whole book for the Rallye/TU24 , need to find it ..

 

D

 

 

Edited by DamirGTI

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Rorykeen
13 hours ago, DamirGTI said:

 

 

Indeed this one is std. "economy" head , not a TU24 ... i wonder if the whole engine is also , something else but TU24 ?

 

 

Take the head off and inspect what you've got there , apart from the bolt pattern on the inlet i think the port spacing itself is also unique on the TU24 .. sadly i've lost majority of the "in detail" photos of that TU24 project when my HD went bust with the lot of the project data stuff .

 

8mm valve stems are giveaway for detecting the TU24 head (all the rest are 7mm) , there should also be paint ring/mark on the camshaft which is TU24 item specific but i really cannot remember the position of the markings as it's been a while since i made that engine .

However i still have one whole book for the Rallye/TU24 , need to find it ..

 

D

 

 

Thanks D

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Rorykeen
On 1/11/2021 at 12:13 AM, DamirGTI said:

 

 

Indeed this one is std. "economy" head , not a TU24 ... i wonder if the whole engine is also , something else but TU24 ?

 

 

Take the head off and inspect what you've got there , apart from the bolt pattern on the inlet i think the port spacing itself is also unique on the TU24 .. sadly i've lost majority of the "in detail" photos of that TU24 project when my HD went bust with the lot of the project data stuff .

 

8mm valve stems are giveaway for detecting the TU24 head (all the rest are 7mm) , there should also be paint ring/mark on the camshaft which is TU24 item specific but i really cannot remember the position of the markings as it's been a while since i made that engine .

However i still have one whole book for the Rallye/TU24 , need to find it ..

 

D

 

 

Hi mate, I’ve managed to figure out the engine is the Xs/gt engine. The inlet manifold ports are exactly the same on both heads but the different bolt patterns, I’ve drilled a couple of holes where I need them and it marries up perfectly ! Doesn’t look pretty and I’ve had to replace the studs with bolts on the outer two. I’m hoping I can get some alloy welded on for the top inner two bolts as they are above the manifold but still secure it. I’ve been told by the guy I bought this from it’s a well built engine so I’m not going to break it to put on the tu24 head. Thanks for your help !

rory

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