Stub Axle & Bearing Spacer Identification

[fliprio 9]

Afternoon all,

 

I started a previous thread about getting the right spacers for the rear of the 205 as im having a few problems with clearance, even a standard speedline with a 195/50/15 yoko will touch the end of the ARM arm without some spacers.

 

Taking the bearing apart, I have a non splined stub axle and the arm is not splined either.

 

The bearing spacer could be the cause of the narrow beam, any idea of the sizes shown in the pictures are the right size spacer?

 

Any help with identification of parts would be much appreciated.

 

[fliprio 9]

[fliprio 9]

 

[fliprio 9]

[scbond 15 1 Cars]

Is this a 1.6 with drums or a 1.9 with discs?

[fliprio 9]

Is this a 1.6 with drums or a 1.9 with discs?

 

its discs, its originally a 1.9, but its not the original beam.

[Tom Fenton 1,564]

That stub axle is non standard. The step in diameter is the giveaway. Standard stub axles are 24mm all the way along.

[fliprio 9]

That stub axle is non standard. The step in diameter is the giveaway. Standard stub axles are 24mm all the way along.

 

The only reason I could think of for being non standard is if the hub is machined in some way for different geometry, otherwise why would you take the time to machine the arm and make a custom stub axle. The only stub axles I have seen that don't have a spline have been something like the Skip Brown kit, but im sure that has other plates for holding the calipers on etc.

 

The spacer looks similar to the one you showed me in my other thread, so im still not sure why the width is less, unless the bearing is also non standard and the rear part of the race is smaller in some way. I take it the rear bearing is meant to be a twin ball race set-up as I have never taken one apart.

[Anthony 1,003]

The only stub axles I have seen that don't have a spline have been something like the Skip Brown kit, but im sure that has other plates for holding the calipers on etc.

Doesn't look like a Skip Brown conversion stub axle to me - they're quite different looking:

 

 

As you say, there's a wedge type spacer for the caliper bracket on that SBC setup.

[fliprio 9]

Doesn't look like a Skip Brown conversion stub axle to me - they're quite different looking:

 

 

 

As you say, there's a wedge type spacer for the caliper bracket on that SBC setup.

 

 

From some better inspection of the hubs tonight, it looks like the rear bore could be slightly offset, which is why the stub axle has been ground down on the head on one side and the face that the bearing spacer sits on looks to be machines with a slight taper if you can see the picture it shows it being flush at the top and a lip at the bottom

 

 

[fliprio 9]

im still also a bit stumped as to why im having clearance problems, the bearing spacer looks roughly right, the only other thing it can be to give more/less width is the width of the rear bearing race cup (pic below) unless the geometry change is causing it, but I wouldn't say its running noticeably loads of camber or toe.

 

[welshpug 1,682]

I see the problem right there, there's a shoulder/spigot missing.

 

Edited September 7, 2015 by welshpug

[fliprio 9]

I see the problem right there, there's a shoulder/spigot missing.

 

 

I take it that isnt the bearing spacer? saying that, the spacer fits between the bolt heads so its much bigger than the one in the picture.

[welshpug 1,682]

nope, its part of the arm, the bearing spacer sits against that, from memory it's about 5mm tall at least.

[Alastairh 47]

Is that a real early stub axle? From say a phase 1 beam, where the torsion bars are different aswell?

 

Al

[scbond 15 1 Cars]

That stub axle is non standard. The step in diameter is the giveaway. Standard stub axles are 24mm all the way along.

 

This is what I was going to say next. That stub has been machined.

 

Also, when you measure it you want to measure the full non-threaded shaft to the top of the flange (though some places include the flange, which is 5mm from memory).

 

As for the spacer, I think there is only the one size, so that isn't your issue...I'd be more inclined to investigate why a machines stub has been fitted, though the only reason I can possibly think of is to use and smaller diameter bearing (not sure why you would).

[fliprio 9]

nope, its part of the arm, the bearing spacer sits against that, from memory it's about 5mm tall at least.

 

any idea if its a pressed in collar or is it an integral part of the arm? I would guess im somewhere between 5-10mm short on clearance each side

[fliprio 9]

 

This is what I was going to say next. That stub has been machined.

 

Also, when you measure it you want to measure the full non-threaded shaft to the top of the flange (though some places include the flange, which is 5mm from memory).

 

As for the spacer, I think there is only the one size, so that isn't your issue...I'd be more inclined to investigate why a machines stub has been fitted, though the only reason I can possibly think of is to use and smaller diameter bearing (not sure why you would).

 

its 105mm in length excluding the flange, around 60mm till the step in diameter. I think the bit the bearing sits on is 24mm in diameter, its just the section through the arm that's 26mm.

 

The SKF bearing housing/drive flange number is standard 1.9 GTi, so im assuming the bearing is standard.

 

I think you can fit 306 bearing spacers which are a bit wider, but as you say, knowing why these are like this is the first question. The beam came from a forum member, but he got it from someone, hopefully he has kept their number so I can ask a couple of questions.

[allanallen 528 2 Cars]

Right there's some false info in here....

 

A 1900 axle is 25mm diameter not 24mm so that is a non standard axle and if you're using a standard bearing it'll wank about all over the place.

 

A standard axle is roughly (because they vary) 132.5mm long overall.

The m22 thread on the end is 22.5mm long.

From the end to the shoulder is 127mm long.

Bearing spacer is around 13mm long.

Spigot on arm(which welshpug has pointed out is missing!) is 10.5mm tall.

 

Basically you need new axles making and another spacer putting in or the cheaper option is to scrap the arms and get some standard ones.

[allanallen 528 2 Cars]

Just to add- IF the spigot on the arm was still intact a 1900 axle when fitted will protrude around 66mm before any spacers are fitted

[welshpug 1,682]

so looks like a 1.9 stub pin if the length is correct, you can see from your other thread that the staked nut was going on too far.

 

double check your diameter on the pin, its shot anyway as you can see where the bearing has been moving and worn it down because the nut was bottomed out on the thread not clamping the bearing.

[fliprio 9]

Thanks for the info. The end section may well be 25mm as I havent measured that section. Lengths sound about right.

 

Is the spigot on the arm a seperate peice or part of the arm itself? I guess im gona have to make up a spacer if its part of the arm.

 

Im still none the wiser why its got custom stub axles on it.

 

 

Right there's some false info in here....

A 1900 axle is 25mm diameter not 24mm so that is a non standard axle and if you're using a standard bearing it'll wank about all over the place.

A standard axle is roughly (because they vary) 132.5mm long overall.
The m22 thread on the end is 22.5mm long.
From the end to the shoulder is 127mm long.
Bearing spacer is around 13mm long.
Spigot on arm(which welshpug has pointed out is missing!) is 10.5mm tall.

Basically you need new axles making and another spacer putting in or the cheaper option is to scrap the arms and get some standard ones.

[fliprio 9]

so looks like a 1.9 stub pin if the length is correct, you can see from your other thread that the staked nut was going on too far.

 

double check your diameter on the pin, its shot anyway as you can see where the bearing has been moving and worn it down because the nut was bottomed out on the thread not clamping the bearing.

 

I will give it a proper clean up and inspection, the bearings didnt seem to have any play and ran quite nicely to be honest

[allanallen 528 2 Cars]

No the spigot is part of the arm. You have custom axles as the geometry has been changed by re-boring the pin hole at a different angle and fitting an oversized pin. The spigot is missing because that face will have been machined to the same angle as the new bore to allow the brake bracket to sit true.

You need a spacer of 10.5mm minimum IMO, probably a bit more to take into account the machined face.

 

Running round with the bearing not tight will have probably buggered it.

[fliprio 9]

No the spigot is part of the arm. You have custom axles as the geometry has been changed by re-boring the pin hole at a different angle and fitting an oversized pin. The spigot is missing because that face will have been machined to the same angle as the new bore to allow the brake bracket to sit true.

You need a spacer of 10.5mm minimum IMO, probably a bit more to take into account the machined face.

 

Running round with the bearing not tight will have probably buggered it.

 

Allan, I take it with your trailing arm modification you don't take off the spigot? from the looks of it, its only taken a very small amount off the machined face, probably something like an 11mm spacer would probably be ok. Any idea what the diameter of the spigot is, its a bit hard to tell now on my arms.

 

Just checking this is right as obviously the person who put it together didnt check, the bearing spacer plate sits over the spigot, engaging by ~3.5mm into the counter bore of the spacer. From what I can see that will give me about 7.5mm of track width per side back as the spacer plate was just pushed up against the caliper bracket and wasn't even touching against the face of the arm.