What Do I Have To Do To Get A Decent Drive Shaft These Days!

[SweetBadger 91]

 

Had another eventful race on Saturday at Brands Hatch. A tyre popped on me two laps into my qualifying stint, not the end of the world, but then this time it was the off-side drive shaft's turn to s*it itself. It snapped two bloody laps from the end of the race!

 

When it snapped I was at full throttle so it nearly spat me off the track, then the end of the shaft walloped the bottom of my gaz gold damper (splitting it open), and my two race old diff is in need of a rebuild!

 

So, I'm not after the cheapest part; it's false economy when it can snap, end a race and wreak havoc on the rest of the drivetrain!

 

Can anyone suggest a supplier of decent shafts?

[petert 554]

I count myself lucky. I run std. shafts and CV joints, and touch wood, I've never had a problem. My friend Parry destroys driveshafts regularly. I do make sure my CV clearance is correct however, throughout the range of the shock. Minimum is use is 5mm, maximum 10mm.

[Tom Fenton 1,526]

What has actually happened to it? CV broke? Shaft bar itself broke on the friction weld? Shaft pulled out of the CV?

 

As Peter says its crucial to get them to live to make sure the sliding joint doesn't either bottom out or come out of the joint over the range of suspension and steering movement. Too long is more difficult to sort, but too short can be sorted within reason by using a spacer on the cv up against the bearing.

[SweetBadger 91]

I've never had issues like this before, and I used to run 205 1.6 shafts with 309 bottom arms - 10+ trackdays and 40k road miles with no issues, and I think I still have one of the 1.6 shafts in the garage!

 

The outer CV let go. I'm planning to pull everything apart on Thurs so I can the diff and damper sent off for repair - will post some pics then.

 

From the brief look I've had at it since Saturday, there's not much left of the outer CV joint! I felt a little vibration about 10 secs before it properly went, but before that point the car was going well and the drive shaft was showing no signs of an issue (same shaft that was also fine at Cadwell park).

 

I have a feeling it might have been clipping a kerb on the exit to druids while on the throttle that pushed it over the edge. Either that or the cv boot spat all the grease out and then it wasn't long until the CV seized

Edited May 19, 2015 by SweetBadger

[SweetBadger 91]

Damage report:

 

Outer Cv properly destroyed!

 

 

Inner Joint was fine

 

Damper mullered and stuck in hub:

 

 

Brake disc gouged

 

[welshpug 1,626]

AH! base model/1.6 type construction, not a proper CV joint type there, that'll be part of the issue.

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

as above, the 1.9 shafts with that type of joint don;t last long at all, as said get a pair of shaft from Colin and you should never have that issue for a long time

Did you get back on 1 wheel drive ok?

Edited May 20, 2015 by Miles

[Tom Fenton 1,526]

That type of outer joint isn't up to hard track use. You need the type with the 6 ball rzeppa type outer joint.

I find it also helps to wash the standard grease they come with out and replace with something better. The gti6 brakes don't really help as they are a massive heat sink which then passes all that heat into the wheel bearing and outer CV joint. I found at the ring that hard lapping would start the shafts knocking like hell. Come off the track and drive gently down the road and within a mile or so they would quiet down again as the grease cooled down and solidified again.

[welshpug 1,626]

the staked nut is a giveaway, all the proper CV's I've seen are always the R-clips.

 

good thing with the proper o.e spec shafts is you can buy new outer CV's for them.

 

the 306 joints are larger again than the 306 but with the same spline on each end, so as Miles said a set from Colin will stand up to quite a lot of abuse, though I do know someone who has broken some of those too, he is a bit of a car breaker with a full spec Sherwood S16 engine on 17" rally stickies!

[SweetBadger 91]

Ahh right the near side one that let go was the same type of CV.

 

Good to meet you Miles, afraid I didn't even attempt to make it home on one wheel drive because it soon turned into zero wheel drive! The diff will be going off to 3j for a rebuild too . Luckily I found a friendly recovery company local to me and got the car back home for £70 so too costly to get it back home (cheaper than the trailer hire!)

 

I've bought a pair of AMK 205 driveshafts from ebay:

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/291469359260?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

 

I've read good things about them so hopefully they'll be up to the job. I'll make sure the joints are the proper 6 ball type before fitting them and replace the grease while I'm at it (they have staked nuts in the pic, so alarm bells are ringing, but I've seen some pics of the same shafts with a hole for the r-clip).

 

I need to check driveshaft plunge after I get my -ve camber hubs fitted before I can think about buying a set of shafts from Colin, so at the very least these shafts will do for that.

 

Tom can you recommend a decent grease? I have some comma CV grease will that do the trick?

Edited May 20, 2015 by SweetBadger

[petert 554]

the staked nut is a giveaway, all the proper CV's I've seen are always the R-clips.

 

I've seen new 1.9L shaft imitations with R clips. Beware.

[Tom Fenton 1,526]

Why does the diff need a rebuild?

 

Grease I use millers hi mol. The comma stuff you mention is probably no better than what the shafts come with.

[SweetBadger 91]

The diff is now open for some reason - I had enough drive to limp me back in to the pits, but after a short tow there's now no drive so something's not right. I got in touch with 3j and they confirmed it probably needs a rebuild.

Edited May 21, 2015 by SweetBadger

[pip470 61]

I had no drive with a plate diff either after snapping a shaft. I got told it was because of the set up as the plates were only rebuilt 200 miles ago.

[SweetBadger 91]

Hmm, maybe that's the case with mine, problem is I don't know the settings on the diff so I can't be sure whether something's not right.

 

It did have drive when the shaft first went as I managed to drive it back to the pits, then after the car was towed to the entrance of brands it lost all drive. Plus when I've had both wheels off the floor before you couldn't turn both wheels independently, so that points to the diff not behaving like it did before the shaft went.

 

The clutch would have needed replacing shortly anyway, so the box would have had to come off for that - even if there is there's nothing wrong with the diff at least I'll be able to get the settings verified and potentially changed if needed.

 

Just a bit of a pain having the car apart again!

[Tom Fenton 1,526]

I certainly wouldn't be sending the diff anywhere. Tran-x used to want a kings ransom for what is in fact a very very easy job. Setup wise its obvious when you take it to bits, then you can decide whether to put it back as was or to change it.

[SweetBadger 91]

Too late! It was packaged up and left the house yesterday.

 

3J charge £65 for a strip, clean and inspect.

 

I had a look at a video showing the principles of operation and how a plate diff goes together yesterday, and yes you're right it is a pretty simple piece of kit. Thing is it's now only 3 weekends until the next race and there's a fair bit of work to get the car back together and running so this time I think sending it off was the best option.

 

Next time it needs a rebuild / service I'll do it myself.

[Tom Fenton 1,526]

£65 to undo 10 bolts and clean it.....bargain.....NOT.....

[Ams 23 1 Cars]

I've bought a pair of AMK 205 driveshafts from ebay:

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/291469359260?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

 

I've read good things about them so hopefully they'll be up to the job. I'll make sure the joints are the proper 6 ball type before fitting them and replace the grease while I'm at it (they have staked nuts in the pic, so alarm bells are ringing, but I've seen some pics of the same shafts with a hole for the r-clip).

 

 

I bought an N/S AMK driveshaft and the outer CV boot split within 1200 miles of road use, so worth keeping an eye on the boot as I think the rubber quality isn't great.

 

[SweetBadger 91]

AMK shafts arrived, took a look yesterday and the CVs are the correct type, but the offside CV boot was already split where the clip had been over tightened! Knocked the outer CV off to replace the boot, and broke the circlip, so I still don't have an off-side driveshaft...

 

Incredible! I'm surrounded by useless dirveshafts!

[Ams 23 1 Cars]

Have you measured the compressed lengths of both driveshafts by any chance? I had to return an AMK N/S driveshaft due to the compressed length coming up short, I later found out that their database lists 205 GTI 1.9 N/S shafts as being 566mm which is worryingly short, yet the one that turned up was 575mm compressed and 585 static. Worth checking if you've added camber to the front.

[SweetBadger 91]

Near side driveshaft is fine.

 

Tried to get he offside in this eve just to check the plunge, and I couldn't get the bloody thing to slide into the box! The old shaft (or at least what's left of it!) slides in and out by hand, so there's something not right with it...

Edited June 1, 2015 by SweetBadger

[welshpug 1,626]

tight splines? heard that before with some shafts, got any other diffs to try it in?

[SweetBadger 91]

I do have a standard 205 diff spare - will try it in that when I next get into the garage.

 

In the meantime I'm going to try source another shaft...