This May Sound Dumb Nut What Would.......

[Guest joe]

this may sound liike a dumb question but what would happen if i put 500ml bottle of

( the purple) methelated spitit in with say 1/4 - 1/2 tank of petrol????

 

or say if i did a mix of 70% petrol - 30% spitit???

 

dumb maybe but just curious as the spirit is highly flamable so wouldnt have much trouble burning just woudered if it would halm the car ( no cat fitted) and would they be any benifit doing this????

 

thanks joe

[Gaz 0]

Petrol gives the best energy to volume ratio of any other fuel and this is why it is used by fuel companies. Other fuels such as methanol is used in certain motorsports applications due to its high octane rating and the fact it wont drown the spark no matter how much u chuck in the engine, the engine will just use what it wants and throw out the rest. To get the same sort of power output from methanol as petrol u need to use far more of the stuff. Fuels like methanol can enable you to get more power from an engine by having a higher RON rating (research octane number) which enables you to run a higher compression ratio without detonation occuring. This is no indication of how much energy is stored in the fuel.

 

In answer to your question, Im not aware of the octance rating of meths (which i believe is mostly ethanol) or its solubility within petrol so I cannot say what quantity if any at all would increase the octane rating of the petrol which is what u need to give you the ability to increase performance (in conjunction with tuning).

 

My short answer wud be, dont bother it will be too costly and you are unlikely to be able to get the mix right along with the correct timing or other tuning adjustments to see a noticable improvement assuming that meths actually can improve the octane rating in the first place.

 

Having said that and playing devils advocate, I cant see any reason why a small amount (5%ish not 30%!!)would do any harm as it wud burn cleanly but it would just lack the additives that are in petrol to help keep the valve seats from getting damaged (like lead used to do).

 

That is just my opinion.

 

Cheers

Gaz

Edited December 2, 2003 by Gaz

[Doof 11]

just slap avgas in it!

 

Then let me know if it blows up or not...

[Gaz 0]

just slap avgas in it!

 

Then let me know if it blows up or not...

Avgas shud be ok AFIK cus it has a very high octane ratin due to the addition of tetra-methyl and tertra-ethyl-lead which help resist detonation and produce a soft lead deposite on valve seats. Avgas cvan have a ron of up to about 130 if i remember correctly.

 

Gaz

Edited December 2, 2003 by Gaz

[nick 3]

How can this man have bulls*it points?.......................

 

Nick

[Guest jeremy]

How can this man have bulls*it points?.......................

 

Nick

Well I wouldn't have a bloody clue if it he was right or wrong, and perhaps he is just bulls*itting, but if he is he is bloody good with it, cause I'm not going to call his bluff.

[atomic-jon 1]

meths is mainly ethanol with a bit of the highly optic nerve toxic methanol in it to escape from liscensing laws, the methanol content is a few percent.

It will mix easily with petrol as they are both organic solvents, ethanol also mixes (disolves) in water due to its polar propeties, but petrol doesnt as its pretty much non polar. gaz's info is spot on

[DrSeuss 0]

I know someone thats run a lada on AVGAS, its normally over 100 ron as gaz says, and won't do much harm to your engine. As for adding ethanol a small ammount added to your fuel with increase its octane rating and reduce pinking. The only problem is your fuel will become hygroscopic (it'll absorb water) so the ammount of time it can be left in the tank is very minimal.

 

If you want some real fun go to your local model shop and get a few bottles of pure nitromethanol, this is the fuel top dragsters use as it has a higher energy content per litre then petrol. Its mental stuff and your engine will be doomed by its use. And its also very hygroscopic.

 

Also meths you buy over the counter already has some water mixed in with it, as its not 100% by volume.

[fiji bob 0]

is that the nasty smelling yellow stuff? might have to nick my brothers stash

[Guest stevec205gti]

Hmmmmm - Well if it helps I know that you can pour a bottle of meths through the top of a loaf of bread and the bread will filter out all the pink crap. Who says school RE lessons were a waste of time??? (Thank you very much Mr Meigh!)

[Guest jeremy]

Hmmmmm - Well if it helps I know that you can pour a bottle of meths through the top of a loaf of bread and the bread will filter out all the pink crap. Who says school RE lessons were a waste of time??? (Thank you very much Mr Meigh!)

And did you still eat the bread

[Guest mrswampy]

and the reason it has the nasty purple colour and smell to it??

 

to stop tramps drinking it!

not so many years ago it was clear and odourless,very good in this form for cleaning brake lines etc out with.

 

and yeah a petrol engined car runs very well on avgas.

just a ;pity i cant get that much of it any more

[Doof 11]

Looks like we're using avgaz for trackdays from now on. 30p a litre or 80p mmmmm

 

Will we have to advance or gaz the timing at all....sorry i mean retard the timing?

[Guest Dave]

Seemingly a lot of octane boosters use stuff that is chemically very similar to cellulose thinners.

Octane booster smeels very like cellulose too.

There was a debate about this on MIG and it was agreed that cellulose would probably give the benefits of octane booster at a fraction of the cost, but runs a real risk of damaging rubber fuel-hose and injector o-rings etc, which cellulose willtend to melt after prolonged contact.

[Guest flygirl152]

Looks like we're using avgaz for trackdays from now on. 30p a litre or 80p mmmmm

 

Avgas ..............................80p litre .............not a chance !! Its more heavily taxed than lower octane car fuel. Using 5 gallons per hour flying the aviation equivalent to a metro gets a bit upsetting JetA1 now thats a different story.. much cheaper. I have had a go at running my car on avgas which was 100ron didnt make much difference sadly

[Rob_the_Sparky 9]

Try whatever you want but if you blow an engine don't be surprised. There are a few things that can be done (I've seen long discussions on some Jap turbo sites) but most have drawbacks, all are illegal and there is a risk that the engine dies.

 

The more you know the lower the risks. Seeing as we don't know much about it then don't do it unless the engine can be sacrificed in the name of research.

 

Rob

[fiji bob 0]

i think that tu engine/explosion vid should invlolve lots of nitromethanol

Edited December 3, 2003 by fiji bob

[Doof 11]

flygirl152, i did a week work placement some years ago at a local airport and im sure it was avgas they sold for something like 27p a litre. Some guy came and filled a load of jerry cans up for his motorbike while i was there as well.

 

Whats the difference between avgas and jetA1 cuz i could be getting them mixed up...

[Guest flygirl152]

Avgas is usually anything between 80-450p a litre depending on where u buy it from. Jet A1 is a kerosene based jet fuel( the stuff your holiday jet to malaluf uses ) I believe that is usually about 30pa litre ( not sure cos unfortunately no-one will lend me a jet to fly for a day or too) No idea whether a car could or would run on Jet fuel..........unfortunately i fell asleep in ground school during the aeroplane technical bit.

Am lead to believe the old V8 fire tenders at heathrow run on avgas tho and they have to get to fires quickly and all that!!!

[Beastie 1]

Just another note on the Methanol thing: It doesn't mix with mineral oil and because you are going to need a rich mixture when using it then some of it is going to find it's way into the sump and make an emulsion. The sort of vehicles I deal with use vegetable oil for lubrication when running methanol - maybe you could use fully synthetic - I don't know because it's never cropped up! Also of course meths isn't going to make a particularly homogenous mix with petrol for the same reason. The Mercedes GP cars in the 30s used a mix of Benzine, nitromethanol and Acetone but Benzine is a little different to pump fuel!

[DrSeuss 0]

Benzene is quite common in pump fuel. In america ethanol replaced benzene but they soon found out that since ethanol was water soluble it polluted groundwater from the ancient and leaking petrol tanks.

[Beastie 1]

Yes - apparently so: To the extent that Health and Safety recommend evacuation of a car during refilling with unleaded to prevent inhalation of too much carcinogenic Benzine (seriously!). Trouble is that pump fuel is not pure Benzine and it's the other mineral derived stuff that won't mix with the Meths.