Mapping Session Booked!

[GilesW 41]

I have never ever done the cafe thank god.

 

Mr Greenald definitely told me they did some work for Ford on getting a KA to run on really poor fuel quality for their markets out in the back of beyond so maybe he does get involved on the obscure side of things from time to time.

 

I haven't ever heard or seen anyone say that TnR are poor and avoid.

 

So to people looking for mappers - I would certainly suggest they are worth a significant travel to see - but just make sure you're car is 100% ready for mapping first.

[macaroni 17 1 Cars]

I'll pop up with a poor report of Track 'n' Road!

 

I had a 205xs fitted with a Weber 38DGAS, which I got running as best I could, but as I am only a lowly Geophysicist, not an expert on Ford carbs, took it to them for final fettling.

 

After 6 hours, 1 of which Steve (Not Greenald) went AWOL for, the car ran like a dog and produced less power than when it went in.

 

When I went in, as they were mapping a new intercooler onto a Noble for Rousch, I expected good things from them, but maybe not for plebs in bodged 205s.

[Harni 6]

I have never ever done the cafe thank god.

 

Mr Greenald definitely told me they did some work for Ford on getting a KA to run on really poor fuel quality for their markets out in the back of beyond so maybe he does get involved on the obscure side of things from time to time.

 

I haven't ever heard or seen anyone say that TnR are poor and avoid.

 

So to people looking for mappers - I would certainly suggest they are worth a significant travel to see - but just make sure you're car is 100% ready for mapping first.

 

 

Yeah when i was there a few weeks ago, they were telling me about a new 1.0l eco boost Kuga running 270hp!

 

I'll pop up with a poor report of Track 'n' Road!

 

I had a 205xs fitted with a Weber 38DGAS, which I got running as best I could, but as I am only a lowly Geophysicist, not an expert on Ford carbs, took it to them for final fettling.

 

After 6 hours, 1 of which Steve (Not Greenald) went AWOL for, the car ran like a dog and produced less power than when it went in.

 

When I went in, as they were mapping a new intercooler onto a Noble for Rousch, I expected good things from them, but maybe not for plebs in bodged 205s.

 

Thats a shame mate and i do genuinely think that is the first bad report I've heard on them.

[GilesW 41]

I'll pop up with a poor report of Track 'n' Road!

 

I had a 205xs fitted with a Weber 38DGAS, which I got running as best I could, but as I am only a lowly Geophysicist, not an expert on Ford carbs, took it to them for final fettling.

 

After 6 hours, 1 of which Steve (Not Greenald) went AWOL for, the car ran like a dog and produced less power than when it went in.

 

When I went in, as they were mapping a new intercooler onto a Noble for Rousch, I expected good things from them, but maybe not for plebs in bodged 205s.

Oh that's not good.

As Niall - that's the first negative I've heard.

 

Didn't even know they still dealt with carbs

[alexcrosse 124]

Pitcher does carbs.

 

They don't calibrate fords ECU's,

[cheesegrater 43 1 Cars]

Track and Road certainly won't give you what you want.

They will give you what your car can do, and tell you any issues they identify and offer suggestions on resolving them.

 

Both the Steve's work incredibly hard at getting every car through their door to be the best it can be, and if it can't be what you expect they will tell you as soon as they know during the mapping session that and would have no problem calling it a day early so you can address some stuff to make your next visit more worthwhile.

 

I speak from much experience of many mapping sessions on my cars. and many friends.

 

 

3 things to remember when visiting them though:

 

1) You'll be making lots of tea.

2) Bring biscuits.

3) The kebab van gives vital sustenance at 2am.

 

This is very much the case, my car will certainly be going back.

[daneldridge23 15]

cars mapped!

 

it came out with 180bhp and 149ft lbs of tourque. I was hopeing for slightly more and given it was about 30 degrees in the cell it might have got a bit more on a colder day,

 

will put some videos up soon

[gizzmo 3 1 Cars]

We're you happy with the results and service you received,mine is ready to go 2.2 on bodies, have you thought it may be a bass map for running in? With more time required later on,it's the route I intend to go down as the engine is as new

[welshpug 1,623]

if its built right it'll be run in in the first few hours on the rollers, the mapping wont be any different, sometimes after a few hundred more miles they might loosen up and need a little tweak but that is rare.

[gizzmo 3 1 Cars]

if its built right it'll be run in in the first few hours on the rollers, the mapping wont be any different, sometimes after a few hundred more miles they might loosen up and need a little tweak but that is rare.

How much time would you expect it to take from crap to get the map close to optimum,I noticed that northampton seem to book mapping in half day slots so with them I may have to book a couple of sessions,so was planning on getting a good map then bit of running in then back to see if that map can be fine tuned,may even take it some where else.

[Harni 6]

How much time would you expect it to take from crap to get the map close to optimum,I noticed that northampton seem to book mapping in half day slots so with them I may have to book a couple of sessions,so was planning on getting a good map then bit of running in then back to see if that map can be fine tuned,may even take it some where else.

 

How longs a piece of string? A mates bodied 1.8 306 was mapped by T&R in 3 hours. Mine spent almost 8 hours on the dyno and went back again for another 4 hours.

 

That is one reason T&R are good. A lot of people say that £500 is expensive even for South/London rates but when you take into account that most places around here charge £80-90+vat per hour, i would of ended up paying shed loads more and probably not got as good a job.

[gizzmo 3 1 Cars]

Yes that's what I thought it can be a long windered affair,and as nms tend to offer half day slots the results that may be achieved in the time allocated,will most probably not be a fair reflection on engine potential,it's local for me and as I have a none mot vehical am going to have to bite the bullet,but I'm not expecting the full engine potential within a 3 hr slot,but if I can get a good base map from which can be built on that's fine by me

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

You really need to drain and refill the oil to ensure all the build grease etc if used comes out, I always use the running in method on my own car's, Customer car's are more difficult due to the overall cost, of bookings and transport etc

[daneldridge23 15]

Tbh im not convinced about my car, i was there from 9 till 12 and he was supposed to have run it in aswell and he changed the oil

 

i will use the map to run it in properly get the car fininshed properly and then take it somewhere else

[rallyeash 155]

Cheap and twice coming to mind?! Fustrating though as you shouldn't have to suffer because of a can't be assed attitude!

[Harni 6]

Tbh im not convinced about my car, i was there from 9 till 12 and he was supposed to have run it in aswell and he changed the oil

 

i will use the map to run it in properly get the car fininshed properly and then take it somewhere else

 

To be honest, not trying to s*it on your parade but i would be asking questions if it was only there for 3 hours and he's run it in and changed the oil. Im assuming that was a map from fresh and it wasn't an old map being updated to take into account new mods?

[Sandy 189]

You'd be doing well to map OMEX from scratch in 3 hours, it would have to be based on or virtual duplication of a previous map and I very much doubt it was cheap Ash.

[blandy 29]

Mine was mapped there to rectify a bad map I had done elsewhere and i was there around 5 hours and that was all on the rollers bar the putting it on and taking it off etc

 

As for cheap I think it was £90 a hour so not cheap but I was happy with the results

Edited June 22, 2014 by blandy

[gizzmo 3 1 Cars]

Tbh im not convinced about my car, i was there from 9 till 12 and he was supposed to have run it in aswell and he changed the oil

 

i will use the map to run it in properly get the car fininshed properly and then take it somewhere else

Sorry to hear that you not happy but look forward theirs plenty advice on good mappers on this forum, iam expecting and to be honest I'm no expert,that it will take more than one trip to have the results that I will finally be pleased with for me nms will give me a foundation from which the engine can be run in properly,I should be able to pinpoint arrears that can be improved,on and from this locate a mapper that can fine tune it sounds like that trip to Cornwall might be a way forward

[Sandy 189]

I suppose I should add, what is very important to good mapping, is that it stays balanced with the engine's needs; what you don't want is moving goalposts. Some of the common issues are:

 

Adjustable Fuel Pressure Regs: Most are inconsistent and vary hugely with temperature, also the temptation to tweak it if you think there's a problem, can be too much to bear. If you've got one, sack it off for a fixed Bosch or Weber capsule type reg. No excuses, even the supposedly quality ones do this.

 

Moving throttle stops and non-returning throttles: The throttle stop screw on many aftermarket TBs moves and throws the early TPS load settings off. Users often make matters worse by trying to reset the map values and losing the initial settings. Pre-loaded cables (some slack at idle is essential), weak return springs and stick/snagging throttles also cause many problems.

 

ITB balancing: Paired TBs like Jenvey TB and TH type may balance initially, but the linkage between relaxes over time and if the TPS is on the secondary/slave bodies, the primary/master will go very lean, risking engine damage. Single bodies per cylinder such (eg Jenvey SF/ST type) are much worse and go off quite quickly with regular use due to the linkages relaxing. Bike bodies on the other hand are very reliable in this respect, which is why I like to use them where I can.

 

The fuelling/ring+bore relationship: As the rings "run in", the fuelling needs of the engine will change. If you have well prepared, precision honed bores, with well chosen matched rings, they should come in completely within a good mapping session. If the prep and matching isn't so great, how long is a piece of string?! I'm not a fan of running in before mapping, because alot of engine wear and damage can occur during this period, that will affect the life of the engine and may even prevent the rings ever coming good. It is sensible to get the fuelling clean and accurate at the outset; this is one area where people that have true engine sympathy, rather than just mapping as a number game, have the edge. They will sense when the rings have come in well and when the engine's needs are stabilising and becoming predictable. If you can achieve that, the map will remain accurate for the foreseeable future.

Another side of the fuelling/engine relationship and also how the ignition map is judged, is that if the engine runs clean, the rings/bore are more likely to remain consistent and the chambers and ports will suffer less deposits, which over time can change the fuelling and ignition needs to the extent that the engine goes into a vicious circle of decline as the problems gets worse and compounds itself. Worst case it can also create hotspots that lead to piston/HG damage.

 

Fuel supply: Stick to the actual fuel it's been mapped on (preferably a branded fuel rather than supermarket, which tends to be much less reliable). RON rating is only a guide and not an overall assessment of fuel properties. If V-power is practical for you to use, then I recommend it; it consistently gives the best results on the engines I do (including race formulations, which can massively reduce det sensitivity; but I've never seen a genuine, repeatable power improvement overall on a race fuel). The tank must be able to breathe both ways, tank pressurisation can occur from the hot fuel returning and vapourising when a closed system or non return breather is used; which pressurises the tank and can affect the reg operation.

 

Ignition lead angle: As I mentioned before, it's imperative that the lead angle of the CPS is stable, which can be affected by CPS sensor or bracket changes, different trigger wheels from flywheel or front pulley changes, where applicable. Very fuel mappers ever bother to do a proper TDC check and qualify the lead angle with a timing light and I'm afraid NMS aren't the only people mentioned on this thread, that I know have not bothered with that on more than one occasion. Of course the theory dictates that if proper mapping takes place, the map values will only offset the lead angle error; but we all start somewhere and have a rough idea of what advance figures we should see for a given engine type/spec and if you're starting 8 degrees out, you might never get near the sweet spot or melt a piston before you get the chance to try. Also if you then change the CPS/trigger disc etc, how do you dial it in again if you don't have a qualified value from before?

 

Air leaks: It's obvious to most, but poorly sealed manifolds, damaged injector seals, worn TBs, unplugged vac take offs etc wreak havoc with the "air metering" and if it starts wrong, it can only get worse.

 

Wiring: The loom is a common source of variables. Poor connections, corrosion, inadequate wire choice, over-loading etc can all affect the consistency of the map. This is why I'm really not a fan of "plug and play" using original ECU looms etc, especially of the French variety. It's not limited to old looms though, newly made looms, even from supposedly high quality sources, can be problematic. Frequently small diameter Tyco or Raychem wire in "MIL spec" looms creates map shadows that don't happen with a bit more gauge, especially to injectors and coils. Also such wires are vulnerable to hamfisted installation when under pressure causing fractures, or not enough heatshrink overlap to protect joints where economies are forced by expensive materials being used for inexpensive applications.

 

We all learn by experience and as soon as I post this I'll remember more detail I should have added, but you get the idea hopefully!

Edited June 22, 2014 by Sandy

[dcc 855]

There is only 1 person I would take my car to for mapping. The reason being attention to detail. He is not interested in giving the customer what they want, but ensuring the engine gets the best map for its needs... (if thats what the customer wants then bonus )

 

I have a lightly modded 1.9 8v, it is 'quick' but it is also well refined as a whole. The fact it makes no where near the power of my old 2.2 is what makes it more fun, but also makes it feel a whole lot quicker too... why? Because it has had more time spent being set up right and isn't hessitant at any point. I even had 2 visits due to issues, but thanks to the helpful ear and eyes of the people who are passionate about cars an even more expensive mistake was just avoided.

[daneldridge23 15]

so whats the best thing for me to do then, is there anyone else around that does mapping that i can trust?