Advice - White Smoke From Exhaust

[amusingadam 6 1 Cars]

So this morning the 205 was throwing out loads of white smoke and in 3 weeks is going on a euro trip, is it worth taking the head off etc or just replacing the whole lump the 8v seen cheap

Edited April 25, 2014 by amusingadam

[GLPoomobile 958]

My advise would be a more suitable topic title

 

You might get far more relevant and useful replies than mine that way

[PAGOS 15 4 Cars]

Where was it throwing the smoke out of ? In my case its the ash tray .

[Daviewonder 533 3 Cars]

You need to look into it a bit further as you don't want to make work for yourself. I've known of cars putting out smoke because the seal on the master cylinder has gone.

[DamirGTI 327]

Do a block test/combustion leak test .. also check the coolant level inside the expansion tank (must not drop , neither a little bit) , check the oil on the dipstick for creamy discoloration (coolant mixing with oil) also underneath the oil filler cap for presence of creamy mayonnaise kind of deposits (some is to be expected on a car which is driven mostly on short journeys , but excessive amount will be down to the head gasket issue)

 

If it's thick white smoke with sweet smell (burning antifreeze) which doesn't go away after the engine heats up to the operating temp it'll be some kind of internal leak (head gasket of maybe even a crack somewhere in the head) ..

 

If it's light white smoke (more transparent) which appears shortly after starting the engine from cold and goes away after a few min. till the engine reaches operating temp. that's condensation .. it might look kinda dramatic sometimes with lot's of smoke till it goes away , especially if the air humility is high , but it's harmless .. if that's the case , nothing to worry about .

 

 

D

[amusingadam 6 1 Cars]

My advise would be a more suitable topic title

 

You might get far more relevant and useful replies than mine that way

something more useful than advice hmmmmm oh ok hi I'm for looking some advice Edited April 25, 2014 by amusingadam

[amusingadam 6 1 Cars]

Do a block test/combustion leak test .. also check the coolant level inside the expansion tank (must not drop , neither a little bit) , check the oil on the dipstick for creamy discoloration (coolant mixing with oil) also underneath the oil filler cap for presence of creamy mayonnaise kind of deposits (some is to be expected on a car which is driven mostly on short journeys , but excessive amount will be down to the head gasket issue)

 

If it's thick white smoke with sweet smell (burning antifreeze) which doesn't go away after the engine heats up to the operating temp it'll be some kind of internal leak (head gasket of maybe even a crack somewhere in the head) ..

 

If it's light white smoke (more transparent) which appears shortly after starting the engine from cold and goes away after a few min. till the engine reaches operating temp. that's condensation .. it might look kinda dramatic sometimes with lot's of smoke till it goes away , especially if the air humility is high , but it's harmless .. if that's the case , nothing to worry about .

 

 

D

thanks it's drank all the coolant in one hit it seems to have a misfire as well so would all point to head gasket will remove the head before I decide what I'm doing

[DamirGTI 327]

Sadly that'll be it yes .. loss of coolant coupled with the engine misfiring is a sign of the engine internal leak problem (blown head gasket mainly , but could be a crack in the head or the liner also though that's not as common on these engine as is the blown head gasket)

 

Just be careful while undoing the head bolts , especially if the engine is higher mileage on which the head hasn't been off previously for quite a while .. on high mileage engines the head bolts tend to size up a bit inside the block which sometimes results breaking them while undoing if you start undoing the bolts more "aggressively" ... so , take your time and start with undoing opposite to the tightening from bolt No 10 to the bolt No 1 in spiral pattern , undo each bolt just a fraction of a turn (initially no more than 1/8 of a turn) and break that into say three stages until they're all loosen so that the each bolt can be turned off by hand ... If any of the bolts offer resistance while attempt to undo it or feels kinda "springy" - stop ! tighten the all the other bolts back and then try again the one which adds resistance but by impacting motion while undoing (if you have an impact gun use that if not , ask an mate to simultaneously hammers down onto the socket wrench while you're undoing)

 

D

[Simes 248 2 Cars]

My advise would be a more suitable topic title

 

You might get far more relevant and useful replies than mine that way

Done!

[amusingadam 6 1 Cars]

Sadly that'll be it yes .. loss of coolant coupled with the engine misfiring is a sign of the engine internal leak problem (blown head gasket mainly , but could be a crack in the head or the liner also though that's not as common on these engine as is the blown head gasket)

 

Just be careful while undoing the head bolts , especially if the engine is higher mileage on which the head hasn't been off previously for quite a while .. on high mileage engines the head bolts tend to size up a bit inside the block which sometimes results breaking them while undoing if you start undoing the bolts more "aggressively" ... so , take your time and start with undoing opposite to the tightening from bolt No 10 to the bolt No 1 in spiral pattern , undo each bolt just a fraction of a turn (initially no more than 1/8 of a turn) and break that into say three stages until they're all loosen so that the each bolt can be turned off by hand ... If any of the bolts offer resistance while attempt to undo it or feels kinda "springy" - stop ! tighten the all the other bolts back and then try again the one which adds resistance but by impacting motion while undoing (if you have an impact gun use that if not , ask an mate to simultaneously hammers down onto the socket wrench while you're undoing)

 

D

thanks, what sort of time frame am I looking at as this will be the first one on a 205 I have done ????

[DamirGTI 327]

If it's your first time doing this kind of a job i'd strongly recommend to take your time and do not rush (if you're not in a hurry to get the car back on the road ?) .

 

Read the Haynes manual first :

 

http://www.205gti.com/downloads.htm

 

... then once you've familiarise yourself with the subject , repair procedures tightening torques etc. , gather all the necessary tools for the job and give yourself a few days to do the repair properly .

 

Just replacing the head gasket alone is pretty easy and can be done within 4/5 hours if you've done it before and have some previous experience , however being an old engine dealing with rusted/sized bolts is always an problem which can easily double the time till the finishing of the repair .. so , be prepared for unexpected .

 

 

D

[amusingadam 6 1 Cars]

After everything I have replaced on car I'm expecting one hell of a fight tbh I will grab a coffee and read my manual tonight thanks for your help got a price on all the bits £78 and skim pressure test £100 is there anything else I should check / replace while I'm in there, water pump and belt were done 7 months back

[DamirGTI 327]

Haynes manual is pretty good with regards to the engine repair/rebuilding stuff , so reading that should provide you with all the necessary info . But if that isn't enough for you or if you're unsure about something don't hesitate to ask us for more detailed explanation or advice .

 

It's not a hard engine to disassemble/assemble , first time is always tricky but once that's done you'll be doing them later like nobody's business !

 

Head skim - absolutely , always get the head checked and resurfaced .. especially after the head gasket fail it really is a must .

Pressure test - also , very good idea .

 

Once the head is off , it would be good time to refresh the head as well ie. - clean up the carbon deposits from the valves , replace the valve stem seals , lapping/regrind the valve seats and readjust the valve clearances . It'll be a little bit more involving and time consuming but i'd say go for it if you want proper job . Though , if you for some reason don't feel comfortable doing the head recon by yourself might reconsider sending it to someone who will do the head recon job for you at an reasonable price .

 

Use quality head gasket (Victor Reinz , Payen or Erling is what i would recommend ..) and an new set of head bolts - that's a must ! do not reuse the old ones , they're stretch type bolts intended for one time use only .

 

While speaking about the head bolts , theres one particular bolt which has a double spacers whilst all the others have just one - it's the bolt located up top of the water pump (bolt No. 8 by the tightening sequence) , double check before fitting and tightening the head bolts that this bolt has two spacers , cos failing that you'll crack the block down the water pump housing while tightening the bolt if you fit just one spacer instead of two by mistake (happened to quite a lot of us including myself !) .

 

Also , i'd recommend to ignore the head bolt tightening method stated in the Haynes manual , don't get me wrong it is correct and is per the OE specs. , however the torque force is a bit too much for use these days when these engines are old thus the bolt threads inside the block aren't so good/strong as they used to be , sometimes they simply can't withstand so much torque which ends up stripping the threads .

 

To avoid this , torque up the head bolts like so :

 

1 - 30Nm

2 - 55Nm

3 - Loosen 1/8 of a turn and re-tighten back to 55Nm

4 - 80Nm

5 - 95Nm

 

If the water pump has been replaced recently that'll do no need to replace it again .. timing belt , well i like to replace it when ever i disturb it no matter if its 1 month or 1 year old , but being 7 months old should be fine although given it's low price id advise you to replace it better be safe than sorry doing it once do it right ... that lefts the timing belt tensioner , if it hasn't been replaced recently replace it now .

 

 

D

[amusingadam 6 1 Cars]

Great help mate will follow it down to a tee, did a whole timing kit so the tensioner was replaced. Thanks

Edited April 26, 2014 by amusingadam

[amusingadam 6 1 Cars]

So while the head is off and sent away is it worth having some more head work done to push a little more power out of it port polish etc. ?????

[welshpug 1,627]

not really.

[amusingadam 6 1 Cars]

not really.

are there no benifits to be had then

[DamirGTI 327]

Yes there is .. but that'll depend on the porting job quality , 8v head is a little bit tricky one to rework properly ... one wrong step and you can actually make it worse ! theres one particular area on these heads which , without doubt , always gains flow when reworked but it's very sensitive and must be reshaped with care .

 

With good reworked gas flowed head you'll feel the difference for sure , thought you wont be "flying" just with the ported head .. this mods are best when done in combinations of a few say like - gas flowed head , aftermaket cam and better flowing exhaust/inlet system .

 

D

[amusingadam 6 1 Cars]

I have been reading for hours on the forum people up grading valves but bothered preferring the xu10 head so have been a bit unsure as to the steps to take. Is there anywhere in Leicestershire Derbyshire that you would recommend for the gas flow skim etc

[DamirGTI 327]

Personally , i think that the XU9/5 heads (bar the early XU5 heads , which had smaller valves) have good valve size as standard , and thus no need going bigger ... reshaping OE valves is better idea then fitting bigger ones me thinks - reshaping them in the way of the "penny on a stick" shape ... "penny stick" valve shape was proven to work best on these heads .

 

XU10 8v head has better port shapes (round shape) , bigger valves , better spark plug index position in the combustion chamber , it's better flowing than XU9 head as standard item , but theres an issue with the head gasket choice with this combination of the XU10 head and XU9 bottom end ... as the XU10 has bigger bore chambers (86 mm for the XU10 and 83mm for XU9/5) , bolting it onto the XU9 bottom end with either using XU10 or XU9 head gasket is always problematic for gaining proper head-to-block seal ... because of the mismatch in the bore sizes .

I haven't tried this myself (mainly because said sealing issues ..) , but there's a few people here who did so they might tell you something about that from they're experience .. try search for wardy18's posts for the start , he used to hill climb race 205 with such build hybrid engine using XU10 head and XU9 bottom end .

 

Sorry but i'm not from the UK ! so can't help with the recommendation for the head rework ..

 

D

Edited April 30, 2014 by DamirGTI

[amusingadam 6 1 Cars]

Cheers you have been more than helpful I will post my decitions in due course thanks again

[Mac Crash 78 1 Cars]

So while the head is off and sent away is it worth having some more head work done to push a little more power out of it port polish etc. ?????

 

As already said, no point gas flowing & porting the head unless your doing the camshaft to suit, then with a an adjustable fuel pressure regulator you will see a significant difference but you must NOT polish the inlet ports. You'll need a vernier cam pulley too.