Cheap, Fun And Reliable Car

[DC2T 51]

If you can stetch to it, an integra type R dc2

[PeterGriffin 20 1 Cars]

I had this issue few months back, see HERE

 

I opted for a 2k Clio 172 and couldn't be happier, comfy and fun. Had budget been bigger I think I would have went with Twingo VVT though...

[audiobull 6]

you could always go a different route and have absolute pure fun in an rx8. ignore what everyone says they know absolutely nothing about rotary engines. I can explain the entire lot to you if you want. there more reliable then a piston engine if looked after correctly. from 2 moving parts compared with 1000 in a piston engine they are going to need abit more loving care. most are surviving up in the 100k miles and unless i am mistaken piston engines need something done either before or after 100k. rebuilds are becoming cheaper too.

 

The noise is just ummmm and the fact you can sit at 8k round a bend then floor it upto 10k is awesome.

Its a pure boys toy if the manufacturer recommends hitting the beep (it beeps at 8k to say get ready to change gear) at least once every time you use it.

 

Sooo many people buy them and have bad dealings with them because they know nothing about them, dont understand them and take them to a normal garage. The owners club is one of the biggest in the world and i have had many outings, track days and years with them. There is nothing they do not know about them.

 

Just thought id throw that in as you can pick them up cheap now, you get alot of car for your money and they are soo much fun especially around a corner.

Edited April 22, 2014 by audiobull

[feb 47]

The issue with the wankel is that it drinks oil by design as I understand as a result of which it needs to be checked regularly.

People don't and the lack of oil causes bottom end failure.

A friend's collegue checked his oil and started his journey from London, when he reached his destination in Wales the low-level oil light came on, needless to say he sold the car after that.

Also fuel consumption is terrible no matter how you drive it.

I don't think it is a car that I will have peace of mind using. The DC2 is a good car too but they rust from the inside and to be repaired properly costs a lot.

I'll need to drive all 3 (172 Clio, mk2 MX5 and mk3 MR2) but from the short test drive in a Trophy a while ago I found the driving position really terrible, like driving a bus.

I like the idea of the Twingo VVT but they are around 5k will have to test drive one as well to decide if it's worth stretching to that.

Edited April 22, 2014 by feb

[audiobull 6]

exactly my point no one understands it. lack of oil wont cause bottom end failure they have no bottom end ;-)

Your right they do drink oil, they have no sump only a small reservoir and the oil is injected along with the fuel. fuel consumption is terrible but think of a 2.6cc and there pretty much the same.

 

Theres tons of rx8's running on water out there tho ;-) hydrogen rotary will be big soon.

 

The rx8 is not for everyone and if you do not think you will be happy in one thats a fair point, thought i would chuck it in there as the rx8 and mx5's are great together round a track.

[omega 82]

wow I thought a cheap car was a couple of hundred quid not thousands

still I suppose it all depends on where you comeing from

[audiobull 6]

im still with you omega cheap is a few hundred quid. thousands is a brand new car to last forever

[kyepan 291]

mx5

dc2

as previously stated, both are cheap as chips, and utterly brilliant.

[Anthony 1,003]

What about a 1.8 VVTi MR2? Do these rust a lot too?

 

They are cheaper than MX5s with generally lower mileage. My friend has a semi-auto with paddle shift and loves it!

 

I'd prefer the manual one though.

 

Are they easy to drive on the limits of grip?

The Mk3 MR2's are pretty good rust wise as far as I know.

 

The noteworthy issues I know of on them are the SMT 'boxes breaking and the earlier cars (2002 and earlier I think) suffered from damaged bores and oil consumption as a result of pre-cat's breaking up and getting sucked back in. The pre-cat design was amended on later models, but most sensible people remove the pre-cats as a precaution - no issues with emissions etc without them.

 

Handling wise they're well balanced and very agile, but start overstepping the limit and you'll need to be quick to catch it if the rear breaks away as you've much more weight (and thus momentum) behind you compared to something like an MX5 with a front engine RWD layout. That's not to say that you can't slide it around without dying a firey death in a hedgerow somewhere, but they're not as forgiving (read - laughably easy to drift) as say an MX-5. They're also very sensitive to tire choice - fit mismatched Linglong specials at your peril!

 

Luggage space is pretty dire, but I'm sure you already know that - you just learn to pack lightly and to make the most of space (mine was my only car for over 18 months and I went round Europe for 10 days odd in mine to give you an idea of what's possible)

 

Steering is a little over-light from memory and has the usual e-PAS slightly detached feeling, but it wasn't terrible, the engine lacks aural pleasure and if you're being particularly picky then the dash is a bit plastic looking in places. Aside from that, very good - handles nicely, quick enough to entertain (but not quick outright), standard fit LSD, nice driving position, good soft top, and felt well screwed together. Quite economical too - high 30's MPG is easily achieved.

 

2003 facelift added a 6 speed 'box, 16" rear wheels and a few other changes along with the numerous cosmetic ones.

 

Hope that helps

[feb 47]

omega, audiobull, I don't know if there are many fun cars for a couple of hundred quid that you can rely on to start on the key every day and will not require a lot of work to keep them going?

 

Ditto, I had an AX which was fun and cheap but I don't think I could do that again unless I had no choice.

 

Anthony, thanks for the comprehensive info, much appreciated!

[mowflow 67]

I bought a mk2 mx5 10th anniversary edition for 600 just over a month ago. Beware of rust, other than that there are few worries. Rather oddly, mk1s seem to be the least rusty models. Mk2s rust badly and mk2.5s have the layered chassis legs which rust through and can be terminal depending on your skills and commitment.

 

Mine is pretty rusty but at the price I'm happy to run it through the summer then repair all that over winter.

 

Being a special edition mine came with yellow bilsteins, 6 speed box, 1.8 with higher lift mazdaspeed cam and torsen lsd. It's fantastic to drive now it has some sticky rubber and the geo sorted. It's pretty civilized for just running about but is a hoot when you want it to be.

 

They are also really simple to work on and parts are plentiful.

[Davy 18 1 Cars]

..Back to the MX5.. I would never have looked twice at one due to the hairdresser stereotyping and the ever increasing 'stanced' examples (each to thier own), however about this time last year I started looking into 'Lanes Rallying' which is becoming very popular here in N.Ireland. I had started looking at saxo vtr's, but then noticed that for a few quid more we could go RWD (with LSD) with 140hp and all weighing little over a tonne!... Suddenly I wasnt too concerned what people thought of me when they seen me in it!!..

 

We got a 98 1.8 S with a little MOT left and had it shipped home for under the £1000 budget. We've gave it absolute dogs abuse and asides from a broken diff mount (bit of a heavy landing!) it has been indestrucable! I bought the MX5 not because I loved them, but because it was a 'good tool for the job', yet we've totally fallen for the wee car. They're also really well set up suspension wise as well and can be adjusted to suit all sorts of disciplines.

 

A mk2.5 sport would be a nice example with the 6 speed, LSD and VVT engine, however there are a few Mk2's that would maybe be worth considering too... There's a Mk2 sport which came with 6 speed and LSD and I think there were only about 300 blue and 300 red ones sold in uk. Then there's the 10th anniversary one, they were sold as a limited edition... a limited number of only 7500 were sold!!..lol. They are a lovely colour tho, and mecanically the same as the sport (6 speed, bilsteins, 146hp). If you bought the right one you maybe wouldnt loose much if you had to sell it on!.

 

..edit.. Mowflow has pipped me to the post already!

Edited April 23, 2014 by Davy

[omega 82]

omega, audiobull, I don't know if there are many fun cars for a couple of hundred quid that you can rely on to start on the key every day and will not require a lot of work to keep them going?

 

Ditto, I had an AX which was fun and cheap but I don't think I could do that again unless I had no choice.

 

Anthony, thanks for the comprehensive info, much appreciated!

 

well feb , just because you spend 2-3k dosnt mean it wont go bang, get ecu faults etc and no iam not having ago at you

depends on what you class as fun

bought a Vauxhall frontera for fun of road for a few hundred pounds was a rubbish car but did have fun getting stuck!

had a 206 gti bought for 400 six months mot started first time every time didn't have a spanner on it and did 2 track days

just got rid of a fiat punto sporting 1.2 16valve cost me 500 with 2 month tax and mot had a boy racer body kit on it not my taste but loved to rev and went round bends well.went straight through a mot and sold it for a little profit.

all of these where fun cars

i have very little spare cash but i still have fun ,your budget is bigger than mine so you can have bigger toys

of course if you had the space you could buy lots of 206gtis on your budget then you would always have one ready to go!

good luck with whatever you choose

[GLPoomobile 958]

With the yen being low at the moment and wanting to avoid the rust from UK cars, is it worth importing a JDM one?

 

It used to be the case (don't know if it still is) that JDM imports had to be rust proofed when imported as they didn't apply anything on them when sold in Japan*. Would those still residing in Japan be any less rusty than ours?

 

*This info was taken from a big importer of GTRs, Supras and the like quite a few years ago.

[Anthony 1,003]

Japan doesn't salt its roads and hence their cars tend to be in much better condition rust-wise than equivilent UK stock from what I saw, regardless of any possible differences in rustproofing (which I would guess would be make/model dependant).

 

My old Eunos Roadster was immaculate rust wise despite being a very early car (1989 registered) as it had only been in the UK 3 years or so and hadn't seen much winter use during that time.

[GLPoomobile 958]

I suppose radiation would be a bigger consideration than rust these days

[mowflow 67]

Not sure but the general view with MX5s is that imports are nearly always less rusty when compared to a car from the UK of the same age.

 

I've not heard anyone say the JDM models had any lesser treatment on them than UK cars (it may be the case) but i will say that they have very little protection underneath when compared to something like a 205 which is caked in sealer and stone chip from the factory.

 

Wings are about £70 each to replace, sills about £100. If you can do the bodywork yourself it's really not the end of the world if there's a bit of rust (unless you pay to much for it in the first place). Front wings are true bolt on, rears and sills more hassle. The chassis legs are the biggest worry. MK2.5s seem to be the worst, MK2s do go but you can completely avoid it by going for a MK1.

 

On the other hand. If rust worries you then completely forget about an MX5 or any Mazda. I'm pretty certain they leave the factory with rust on them.

[Craig01 9 1 Cars]

I've got a Clio 182 that I use as a daily (50 mile commute) it's great and gets 36 MPG+, I've driven it 25,000 miles this year and not had any problems apart from the clutch on all of them is proper stiff and it now has a cambelt due that's going to make my wallet £600 lighter. So watch for stuff like that on the Clio. The driving position is odd, but I find I'm used to it very quickly and I don't even notice anymore. Now everything else feels a bit odd!

 

I also have a 1.8is MK2 MX5, great car apart from the rust on the sills and rear arches. Seen a lot of horror stories with MK2 models being written off on the MX5 OC due to terminal rust, usually the hidden stuff on the front chassis legs. I've driven it all over Europe and it's never missed a beat, thirstier than the Clio though and not very fast. I might sell it at some point as I don't use it much anymore.

 

Made the terrible mistake of buying a MK1 Fabia vRS. Just don't. It' breaks on a daily basis. The dirty, filthy, diesel bastard.

Edited April 23, 2014 by Craig01

[feb 47]

 

well feb , just because you spend 2-3k dosnt mean it wont go bang, get ecu faults etc and no iam not having ago at you

depends on what you class as fun

bought a Vauxhall frontera for fun of road for a few hundred pounds was a rubbish car but did have fun getting stuck!

had a 206 gti bought for 400 six months mot started first time every time didn't have a spanner on it and did 2 track days

just got rid of a fiat punto sporting 1.2 16valve cost me 500 with 2 month tax and mot had a boy racer body kit on it not my taste but loved to rev and went round bends well.went straight through a mot and sold it for a little profit.

all of these where fun cars

i have very little spare cash but i still have fun ,your budget is bigger than mine so you can have bigger toys

of course if you had the space you could buy lots of 206gtis on your budget then you would always have one ready to go!

good luck with whatever you choose

 

I am with you, more expensive doesn't necessarily mean less problems.

The problem with me is that I get "attached" with cars and start modifying to improve things, money which you hardly get back hence I tend to stick to a car for a long time.

The FSTi is the car I've kept the longest and still don't want to sell it TBH as it means a lot to me (I know it shouldn't) but if you need to commute you need something more economical that has less grip in order to have fun otherwise driving can become boring if you know what I mean.

I guess I should start seeing them as consumables if I am to start saving again.

A guy I know has been doing this with S2000s and Evos, buying whatever and selling them on, but he is not the most honest of people, pretending everything is OK and passing on s*it to others.

Edited April 23, 2014 by feb

[feb 47]

As Anthony said they don't use salt in Japan from what i have read too.
I talked to a bodyshop today and they had a mk2 (or mk2.5 - how can one tell? It was an 04 plate) in to do some cosmetic work on the rear arches for a trader (see blow over).

They told me the problem with MX-5s is that water runs in from the inside of the inner skin and collects in between the skins and starts to rust from the inside from what I understood.

So whatever you do they rust from factory sooner or later.

To repair them properly (i.e. new sills and arches) it would cost half the value of the car he said (panels about £500) and is probably not worth it.

He also said the same as most people on here that they are a good laugh and you can throw them about.

I guess if you buy a cheap one that is mechanically sound and has as less rust as possible, import a fresh one or find one with virtually no rust (if there is such a thing) then how much can you loose in 2-3 years if you underseal it and keep on top of it?

I've asked him about mk3 MR2s and he said what you mentioned Anthony, that he hasn't seen any coming for rust repair work.

I like the idea of an easy to drive RWD fun car but I am put off by the rust a bit, on the other hand a mid-engined car might require you to be on your toes.

I need to drive them really to be able to compare.

[Pugleyrich 37 1 Cars]

A mk2.5 will be from 2001 onward IIRC. Easiest way to tell is the projector headlights and newer looking interior. To give an idea on rust repair costs, mine had rear arches cut out, welded and sprayed plus a section done on one chassis leg last year for £500. This was done at Autolink, a well known specialist in Southampton. There are many out there which will have had the necessary body work done and will still be well within your budget

[feb 47]

I asked the bodyshop about the chassis legs and although he has heard many talking about it he hasn't seen any cars with this problem, it must be less common than the rear arches I suppose?

[Davy 18 1 Cars]

The only chassis leg problems I've seen are at the front end, above where the anti roll bar is attached. It can be hard to spot in the early stages, even from underneath if the undertray is still in place. I've only been around Mk2's (98-01) so cant comment on any others. I believe the Mk2.5's were claimed to be a little stiffer, so perhaps there is an extra layer in some chassis leg areas underneath that would encourage rot there too?.. That's only me guessing tho. If you did go for an MX, and were lucky enough to get one with good arches / well repaired arches, then it would be worth trying to get some rust proofing inside the cavity.

 

The only other small thing (if your really watching cost) is the higher tax on any March 01 onwards cars (basically all Mk2.5) due to the different tax classification system. If your doing decent miles, and getting plenty of fun then maybe £225 vs £285 (for the 1.8) isnt a big deal and I'm just a miserable bollocks?!

[kyepan 291]

on the subject of mx-5's and rust, my Mk-1 was bought at 30k miles, in 2009 on a k plate, utterly solid underneath, i kept the drain holes clear. Still utterly solid when i sold it for 2500 a couple of months ago with 56k miles.

 

There are good MX-5s to be had, usually imports like mine, and usually low genuine miles.

 

J

[Anthony 1,003]

They told me the problem with MX-5s is that water runs in from the inside of the inner skin and collects in between the skins and starts to rust from the inside from what I understood.

As I understand (and I might be wrong) the issue is down to a questionable bit of design where Mazda decided that the roof channels should drain down into the unprotected sills where inevitably rust occurs and rots them from the inside out and once you see it on the outside they're f**ked. Salty water will accelerate that process significantly.

 

It's common enough that the repairs are well documented and plenty of specialists doing fixed price repairs with proper repair panels - obviously avoid anything that's had a plate slapped over it to get it through an MOT as the underlying rot is still likely to be there.

 

Caught early before the rot has taken hold it can be well protected and the issue prevented (or at least signifcantly slowed) by rust proofing the inside of the sills - again, common and well documented.