No Power To Coil/injectors (Gti6)

[dexter1002 4 1 Cars]

Hi guys,

Trying to get my gti6 started and it won't fire, the fuel pump is priming and I have all the correct voltages on pins 2, 8 , 11 , 14 and 15 of the double relay. I have a brand new cranks sensor, I had an unlocked ecu with my donor engine but that one wouldn't work so I bought another supposedly unlocked one off the gti6 forum. Is it my ecu that is playing up ?

 

Thanks and any help would be much appreciated

Edited July 23, 2013 by dexter1002

[mattg 3]

Could it be the double relay itself?

[welshpug 1,626]

Try a new relay, those two missing have nothing to do with the ecu, switched live to 14 should have them on.

[dexter1002 4 1 Cars]

That's one thing I haven't tried tbh, can this cause such a fault ?

 

Okie dokie thanks guys I will try one of them, can you still buy them from a dealer ?

[mattg 3]

They are indeed still available. About 40 quid when I bought one a couple of weeks ago

[dexter1002 4 1 Cars]

Right I've tried a relay and I've had the coil packs and tested the injectors, when I turn the ignition on I get a 12v spike to the coil packs, I have all the correct supplies on the relays, are there any earths that are needed on the relay that I can check? My fuel pump primes and stop but no spark or injection, are there any other sensor that can cause it not to start, my car is a phase1

Thanks

[welshpug 1,626]

Only the crank sensor or a locked ecu, earth is in the loom so mo additional wiring, just make sure its bolted down

[dexter1002 4 1 Cars]

Got a new crank sensor and tried 2 ecu's would it still prime with a locked ecu? Starting to annoy me a little haha

[Anthony 1,000]

As far as I'm aware - but have not personally verified - a locked ECU will do as you describe (prime, but no injection/spark) and certainly an unlocked ECU that's not seeing a signal from the crank sensor will do so.

 

Just to confirm, you've definitely plugged the crank sensor into the correct plug on the loom, haven't you? They're usually colour coded and keyed, but I seem to remember that you can plug the crank sensor into the VSS plug (white 3 pin) and they're in a similar area - crank sensor plug is usually brown and due to it being a shielded wire is noticeably stiffer to bend than normal. I'm sure that you have done it right, but I remember reading of one member a few years back that made this mistake and pulled his hair out for ages trying to work out why it wouldn't start

 

If you get stuck and you can't find anyone local who can help, I'm happy to test both your ECU's on my 205 GTi-6 to confirm that they're unlocked and working if you send them to me and cover the return postage cost.

[dexter1002 4 1 Cars]

Hi mate yeah the crank sensor is in the correct place the 3 pin brown plug, the crank sensor is brand new and I've had the old one back on there as well, the resistance readings of the sensors are ok as well.

 

I'm going to give Tamar electrics a call and see if they could test if for me but if not, I would really appreciate it if you could test the 2 ecu's I have. I will ring them now and see what they have to say.

 

Thanks!

[dexter1002 4 1 Cars]

Auto-Matec have said they can bench test it for 25 and if I wanted it decoding it 110 that's if it's locked, seems pretty steep

[Anthony 1,000]

From memory, Lynx Engineering (Rich_W on GTi-6 forum) was doing unlocked ECU's for £60 exchange or £80 outright a while back.

 

There was also a couple of people on here who had the kit to unlock ECU's if yours do turn out to be locked, although I've not seen them post recently so they might not still be around.

[dexter1002 4 1 Cars]

Are the vts and gti6 ecu's the same ? as I know a guy who may be willing to test mine on his car if I ask him nicely

Edited July 24, 2013 by dexter1002

[mattg 3]

If you are local to Northants, I have a spare unlocked ECU you can try?

[welshpug 1,626]

He's in devon

 

Phase1 xsara ecu will work.

[mattg 3]

Not very local then lol

[dexter1002 4 1 Cars]

Thanks anyway mattg! I need someone fairly local to put mine on really. Don't fancy paying 30£ for a bench test but if it comes to it I may have to

[Anthony 1,000]

Are the vts and gti6 ecu's the same ? as I know a guy who may be willing to test mine on his car if I ask him nicely

As Welshpug says, a Phase 1 Xsara VTS uses the same ECU as a 306 GTi-6.

 

Phase 2 Xsara VTS's use a different ECU and wiring loom (multiplex) which is not compatible.

 

If the engine is in a 205/309, it'll almost certainly be a 306 or Xsara Ph1 ECU/loom as the Xsara Ph2 stuff is far more involved to get working in a 205 and I don't know anyone off the top of my head that has successfully done so.

 

If you are trying the ECU in a 306 or Xsara, be very careful as it's easy to re-lock an unlocked ECU! If it's in a 205/309 then you won't be able to re-lock it, unless by some unlikely chance they've retrofitted the whole keypad/transponder immobiliser setup.

[dexter1002 4 1 Cars]

I have a friend coming over tomorrow evening to let me try my ecu's on his car, I will let you know the outcome.

Thanks for the help guys!

[mikeygulley 19 1 Cars]

The loom Dexter has used incorporates the whole lighting loom too, I was unsure of which phase this was from or whether it would normally be removed. But it's all in and working anyhow.

 

I will be sticking his ECU on my car this evening.

[welshpug 1,626]

306 loom does not incorporate any lighting, nor does the 205, nor the xsara!

[Anthony 1,000]

The loom Dexter has used incorporates the whole lighting loom too, I was unsure of which phase this was from or whether it would normally be removed. But it's all in and working anyhow.

Sounds like a 205 Phase 1 loom, where the sensor wiring, ignition feed etc are all in the lighting loom and thus the GTi-6 loom needs to be spliced into that, rather than made into a nice standard alone loom as you'd do on Phase 1.5 and Phase 2 cars.

 

If he's got the correct voltages at the relay and the fuel pump primes, it shouldn't be anything to do with the joining of the 306 loom to the 205 loom, as it only strictly needs about three or four wires to start and run (the rest are dash gauges and warning lights)

[mikeygulley 19 1 Cars]

Sounds like a 205 Phase 1 loom, where the sensor wiring, ignition feed etc are all in the lighting loom and thus the GTi-6 loom needs to be spliced into that, rather than made into a nice standard alone loom as you'd do on Phase 1.5 and Phase 2 cars.

 

If he's got the correct voltages at the relay and the fuel pump primes, it shouldn't be anything to do with the joining of the 306 loom to the 205 loom, as it only strictly needs about three or four wires to start and run (the rest are dash gauges and warning lights)

Yes it's a phase 1 205 and all the correct voltages are at the relay.

[dexter1002 4 1 Cars]

Yeah phase 1, I have all the correct voltages and new crank sensor so I hope to its the ecu at fault!

[Anthony 1,000]

Tested both of the ECU's for Dexter last night to help him get to the bottom of his troubles, and it appears that both ECU's are locked.

 

Both exhibit exactly the same symptoms - fuel pump primes and the engine check light illuminates, but the engine just cranks over with no sign of life.

 

Refit my known unlocked/working ECU, and the engine starts on the button.

 

There really are some shysters out there....