Help Needed

[Will Eastman 6]

I have been reading around the place but can't find much of an answer so thought id post up as its pretty urgent. My car (1.9 Mi16 205 running on standard Mi16 management) has been getting rough the last couple of days and iv replaced the plugs and bought some new leads (which haven't yet arrived).

 

I went out for a drive and it just cut out on me (I dropped the clutch to try and get it going again but it wouldn't have any of it), Iv tried fiddling about with all the connections, but haven't had any luck. Have had to leave the car out in the middle of nowhere tonight, so really need to get it going tomorrow. What sort of tests can I do to narrow down the problem. The car turns over but just sounds like there is no spark at all. Guessing dizzy cap, rotor arm n leads are the ones to change. Though should I be looking at ignition coil and amp?

 

 

Thanks for your help and sorry for the post but I just need help

[welshpug 1,627]

No point changing stuff willy nilly, unless you are minted, even then its not a guarantee to fix things.

 

Firstly do you have power to the fuel pump injectors and coil?

 

Then check if you have spark form the coil, pull the king lead off the distributor cap and place it next to a decent earth, crank it over.

 

if you have spark you should also have injection given both are controlled by the ecu which uses a crank sensor.

Edited December 23, 2012 by welshpug

[Will Eastman 6]

Sorry to be stupid but how do i "check I have power" is that just using a multimeter n testing volts between the part and the earth??

[Will Eastman 6]

Just been out and done some tests on it today. Put a spark plug on the end of the king lead from the coil and didnt get any spark. Not sure what this points too. Have just that the fuel pumps working and have cleaned everything up but still not luck. Any ideas?

[welshpug 1,627]

do you have power to the coil?

[Will Eastman 6]

Not quite sure how to test this but there was 12V between the king ht lead and the negative battery terminal.

[welshpug 1,627]

best find someone that does.

 

pull the multiplug off the coil and test there, wire 32.

 

 

have a wiring diagram

 

 

and the key for the components is here.

 

 

 

Edited December 24, 2012 by welshpug

[Tom Fenton 1,526]

My guess is the coil. I've had two of them go bad on me over the years, both times car just cut out without warning and that was that, on my 405 Mi16 and also a 205 1.1 TU (both use same type of coil).

[omri617 18]

do you have this on pdf or printed version Welshpug?

thanks

[welshpug 1,627]

no but I may be able to sort one out, its for the 2 row MI16 though not your 8 valver.

[Phil H 16]

sounds like either ignition module, coil or rotor arm.

Does the rev counter needle bounce when you crank it over? If it does, then probably the rotor arm has burnt out. (Is the coil mounted upside down and ht lead shorting on the bonnet), if needle not bouncing not, coil or module likely to have failed.

[Will Eastman 6]

Been out doing some tests.

-There is 12v across terminal 2 and 3 going into the coil with continuity between pin 3 and battery positive , although I found it odd that there wasnt continuity between pin 2 and battery negative.

-I checked the relays and I could feel them clicking across so guessing theyr working.

-Have check the crank sensor reading resistance of 343 ohms. I have read this should be 500 so is this kaput??

 

Thanks for the help

[Will Eastman 6]

Have now replaced the Ignition amp with a known working one and have put a new CAS on it. Have ordered a new coil but hasnt arrived yet. Still no spark coming through. Anyone know where I should get for faulty earths? Or any other possible problems.

[PeterGriffin 20 1 Cars]

I'm no expert on the problem you have buddy, but you can't do continuity tests on a live circuit, i.e. using the positive batt. terminal.

 

A continuity test simply sends a small voltage out on positive lead, and checks to see if it returns to the black lead, so any power it sees will register as "continuity"....

 

Hope this helps. Are you able to tow the car home?

[Will Eastman 6]

Yeh iv towed it back now, have just popped back from uni so only have tomorrow to work on it.

[Redtop 14 2 Cars]

It does sound like coil, but in the meantime I would (disconnect battery 1st) remove the earth (13mm spanner) ontop of the gearbox (green/yellow wire) and clean it with abit of sandpaper/wirebrush, also do the part on the box around the 8mm hole and then tightenit up again. I had a friend who thought his coil had went down and he replaced it, but was unsure where to go next. His rev counter wouldn't pulse when cranking as he had no spark.

 

All that was wrong was this earth point corroded badly. Coil packs do go, so yes it can well be that as it's happened me a few times over the years.

It is hard to diagnose a car though without seeing it, but you will be kept right on here.

Edited January 12, 2013 by Redtop

[Will Eastman 6]

Ah great, will give that a go, but sounds like I might be having to wait for the coil. Iv read somewhere that theres an earth behind the dash that could go, anyone got any more info on this. Also what the best way to determine if the powers getting as far as the coil.

[DamirGTI 327]

For testing the coil pack DIY :

 

1 2 up to 4cm. of an old vacuum hose

2 insulated probe light

3 a mate to crank the engine

 

Unplug one spark plug lead from the terminal of the coil pack , stuff the piece of vacuum hose on the end of the lead and with the vacuum hose end fit back to the coil pack terminal , in order so that the vacuum hose protrude above coil pack terminal tower .

Now , use the insulated probe light - connect one end to the earth (battery/chassis doesn't matter ..) and ask someone to crank the engine .

 

While cranking the engine take the earthed probe and touch the center of the vacuum hose (which you've connected in-between the coil terminal and ignition lead) , what you will see will be spark flaming from the vacuum hose onto the probe pointer as you touch and move back . It should be a good strong flaming , test each coil pack terminal this way individually and on the end mark up if you've seen any difference in spark/flame intensity @ all 4 coil pack terminals .

 

If you did spot difference , say 3 terminals had a good flaming spark from the vacuum hose onto the probe pointer but the 1 was sparking/flaming but kinda weak - that's a bad coil pack .

 

If you didn't spot any difference and the sparking/flaming is same on all 4 terminal that's good .

 

So , it's kinda like compression test - needs to be consistency .

 

Damir

[PeterGriffin 20 1 Cars]

Get it fixed bud?

[Will Eastman 6]

Managed to get hold of a 205 coil locally (though wasnt a gti or mi16 one) and the car fired up straight away, But ran rough and managed to break down on the test run. Is now waiting it out at a local garage untill a known working mi16 coil arrives.

Are all 205 coils the same or would having a base model one for example cause rough/no running.

Thanks to everone who helped

[Will Eastman 6]

Have taken the car into the garage now, the coil has been replace and the car is now getting spark. I am still getting eratic starting, the garage tested the fuel pressure on time when the car would not start, and found it to be a little low. Could this be pointing towards a faulty/knackered fuel pump?

[Will Eastman 6]

Anyone??

[welshpug 1,627]

it is a plausible explanation, would need more testing to confirm but given the age of them its not surprising, but could also point to an iffy earth or relay.

Edited January 27, 2013 by welshpug

[Will Eastman 6]

Relays have been changed so wouldn't have thought thatd be it. Would have a check for earth but duno where to start really? Anyone got some tips on possible dodgy earths? Iv been looking at fuel pumps as think i'll change it, they're all about £80 apart from one on unipart for ~£25, any idea on if this will be ok, or should I stick with the £80 ones.

Thanks

[GLPoomobile 958]

I recall Kyepan having issues waaaaaay back due to a dying fuel pump. I'm not usually one to recommend throwing money away swapping out parts for the sake of it, but in this case it's probably worth replacing the pump. At least you know then it'll be good for years, and I'm sure Kyepan said that in addition to curing his problem, the car was noticeably more sprightly after. I wonder how many of us have slightly poorer performance due to old pumps, and don't even know.