Help With 1.6 To 1.9 Conversion

[Rjuhar 52]

Hi, I'd like to upgrade from B6D with motronic to D6B with Jetronic. What part of the loom do I need to replace and also where can I get it? Do I need to do something else? Will it go well with BE1 gearbox? Thanks for help. Did try search but was not successful.

[Carbs4me 45]

The only thing you really need to change is the ecu, the loom wont change.

[welshpug 1,626]

no need to replace the loom, just the ecu+afm+dizzy.

 

 

oh and the engine

[Anthony 1,000]

Read what he wrote - Motronic to Jetronic.

 

In that instance, the loom most certainly does change.

 

For a regular Jetronic 1.6 to Jetronic 1.9 then you're correct in that it's just a ECU and AFM swap and leaving the loom as-is.

 

I didn't realise that they ever did a B6D (or B6E for that matter) on Motronic though - they certainly didn't in the UK.

[welshpug 1,626]

I didn't realise that they ever did a B6D (or B6E for that matter) on Motronic though - they certainly didn't in the UK.

 

THIS! I read the engine code and thought Jetronic !

[Rjuhar 52]

Sorry, I fu..ed it up - I have an existing 1.6 115 GTI with Jetronic, I'd like to swap to a 1.9 engine with Kent cam, ported... and remapped ECU (motronic). Since I know too little about the swaps (I'm more driver and not so much theoretical guy) I'd like to know what part of the loom has to be changed and where to get it. Sorry again for my mistake.

[welshpug 1,626]

Ok, all of it!

 

from the two brown plugs under the dash by the steering column on a RHD car.

Edited October 19, 2012 by welshpug

[Anthony 1,000]

What age is the car?

 

If it's a circa 1988 onwards Phase 1.5 then it's quite straight forward to replace the whole engine loom with the Motronic one, and both will have the same two underdash brown plugs.

 

If it's 1987 or earlier, then it's likely to be a bit more involved and require adapting the Motronic loom and splicing it into the existing wiring. Reason is that the early cars don't have the two underdash plugs, but rather have the fuelling part of the loom seperate with a plug near the battery and the ignition side as part of the lighting loom.

 

Either way, the wiring loom is very different between Jetronic and Motronic, and it really would not be plausable to adapt one into the other as just about everything is different, including the ECU plug. Motronic loom from a late 205 CAT car is actually very similar to the later M1.3 (3 row) Mi16 wiring looms, with just a couple of wires difference from memory.

[Rjuhar 52]

Crap, why can't anything be simple. Since I have problems with current (although rebuilt) 1.6 115hp engine and no more ideas what's wrong I wanted tu upgrade to XU9JA modified engine with re-mapped ECU and now I know that this will not be so simple as my car is one of the last Ph1 cars from 06/87. Bollocks. I wish I were from UK as at least you have some competent 205 GTI guys there but in Slovenia I am still struggling to find one that can sort my engine out, let alone I would let him do the swap and rewireing.

Edited October 19, 2012 by Rjuhar

[omri617 18]

I have a similar issue , my car (1992) GTi was originally 1.6 (B6E) . previous owner swaped it into 1.9 (DKZ).

the ECU is still the same - ends with 340.

AFM is still the same (1.6)

have no idea which dizzy is fitted - need to check it.

Catalyser was removed - i don't know how and how does it affect the current situation

got Motronic ECU ending with 162 - and couldn't fit it because it's 3 row.

[cybernck 400 1 Cars]

Distributor will most likely be from a 1.6 as well, as 1.9 Motronic dizzy is just a rotor arm and cap and wouldn't work with Jetronic.

 

CAT doesn't really matter. You would also need a lambda sensor to go with Motronic system. But first you'd need a full wiring loom.

[Anthony 1,000]

AFM is different too on the Motronic models - same item as a 1.9 Mi16, Bosch part number 0 280 202 202

[cybernck 400 1 Cars]

Sure, but I think he already knows that .

[omri617 18]

so i can't change the dizzy to 1.9 one , without dealing with the loom? how much does it affect the engine ?

if i fit a 1.9 afm , will i get improvement? will i feel any difference?

thanks

[Anthony 1,000]

You need to keep everything matched - so either run 1.6 injectors, ECU and AFM, or run 1.9 injectors, ECU and AFM.

 

Don't start mixing 1.6 and 1.9 fuelling/management parts on the same car.

[omri617 18]

I understand what you are saying , but which ecu i need , with 2 rows that will fit ? the one i got (162) is 3 rows.

AFM and dizzy i will manage to change i assume..

[cybernck 400 1 Cars]

You need to run it as a whole package, one way or another.

 

 

Therefore, to swap to Motronic ECU (162), you will also need:

 

- full Motronic 3-row loom

- Motronic AFM (202)

- Motronic black dizzy

- 60-2 tooth flywheel

- crank sensor and lambda sensor

- yellow injectors

 

That should be about it.

 

 

Or, if you want to go to Jetronic 1.9 management:

 

- Jetronic 2-row 1.9 ECU

- Jetronic 1.9 AFM

- Jetronic 1.9 dizzy

- yellow injectors

 

I think that's about it, but my brain is currently shutting off.

[omri617 18]

And which one would you choose ?

To go Motronic , or Jetronic ?

What's the difference anyway ?

[welshpug 1,626]

If you have the choice, motronic, better control of fuel+ignition.

[omri617 18]

Ok , and what about handling of the car ? speed?

Can i go Motronic when i don't have a catalyser ? (my catalyser was removed) it,s a DKZ engine.

[Rjuhar 52]

This is just a bit too complicated for me. Besides, by the end of the day the guy just wants too much for the engine even though with Kent cam, adjustable pulley and ECU.

[Anthony 1,000]

Can i go Motronic when i don't have a catalyser ? (my catalyser was removed) it,s a DKZ engine.

You don't need the catalyst present, but you will need to add a boss into the exhaust and run a lambda sensor.

[omri617 18]

So i believe i don't have a lambda sensor right now?

[Anthony 1,000]

Probably not, no - LE2-Jetronic (as used on non-CAT 1.6 and 1.9 GTi's) doesn't use lambda.

[omri617 18]

So i think my setup will be like this :

 

1.9 DKZ

yellow injectors

run with 359 ECU

Non-Catalysed

202 AFM

and ... dizzy? which one i need to look for?

 

should i expect good result?