Suspension Upgrade - Next Level?

[Mr Teflon 1 1 Cars]

Hi All

 

Having done 11 trips to the Ring, 1 to Spa and 2/3 UK trackdays a month last year I'm now wondering if there are any suggestions for some more hardcore mods to my 405.

 

The car is slightly lowered and has been fitted with AVO adjustables all round. Everything else was renewed at the same time last Feb.

 

Or should I just fit normal road tyres instead of the R888's

 

I've just emailed DES Developments with the same question - but would appreciate any opinions from anyone on here.

 

I'd like a little more roll control and a little less suspension travel - basically a more track biased setup.

 

Thought long and hard about retiring the car, but just cant do it yet ......

 

Cheers

[Jer309GTi 3]

I'm guessing some kind of coilover setup on the front and thicker ARB's.

 

Trouble is this kind of stuff isn't available over the counter like it is for the 205/309 so will need to be custom made and therefore mega bucks

 

 

 

 

(Or a Mi16x4 )

[cybernck 402 1 Cars]

306 coilovers *might* be usable on a 405 .

 

and afaik T16 has a thicker front ARB, providing you can find one .

 

 

as for the rear end, i think 205parts might be able to make thickers TB's and ARB, providing there's enough interest.

 

 

hope this helps.

[Guest serrento405]

coilover setup and thicker ARB's

[welshpug 1,655]

dont partner van rear end stuff fit?

[Jer309GTi 3]

dont partner van rear end stuff fit?

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If I ever get a week off once my house is sold I will compare the 2 beams from my car and van and see whats what. I've got a van breakers nearby too so maybe could get a few Partner beams if they have them

[B1ack_Mi16 67]

At least the 405 torsion bars are the same length as the 309 ones, so you can get 309 bars from 205 Parts and install in the 405 beam..

[KRISKARRERA 2 1 Cars]

At least the 405 torsion bars are the same length as the 309 ones, so you can get 309 bars from 205 Parts and install in the 405 beam..

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Are 309 GTI torsion bars the same thickness as 405 Mi16?

[Mr Teflon 1 1 Cars]

Interesting info fella's!

 

I had an email back from Neal at DES Developments who is currently doing some development work on a race 306 along these lines. I'm awaiting the results, as he feels that alot of the components can be carried across to the 405.

 

Another chap (Steve at Redline in Stoke Mandeville) passed comment that the rear torsion bars from the 405 estate were an upgrade, but he couldn't remember if that was compared to an ordinary 405 or an Mi16 or what!

 

One thing's for sure - I will be changing some bits!

[Mr Teflon 1 1 Cars]

At least the 405 torsion bars are the same length as the 309 ones, so you can get 309 bars from 205 Parts and install in the 405 beam..

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That's interesting - as people are more likely to have stocks of/make up uprated bars for 309's and 205's than for 405's. So it may be easier to find supplies on the net.

[Mr Teflon 1 1 Cars]

dont partner van rear end stuff fit?

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If I ever get a week off once my house is sold I will compare the 2 beams from my car and van and see whats what. I've got a van breakers nearby too so maybe could get a few Partner beams if they have them

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Imagine if they did! Plenty of them about in scrappies!

[welshpug 1,655]

I always thought that 309 stuff was too short with it being that much narrower than the 405.

 

I may dissapear under my pugs/citroen shortly then....

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

the 405 estate run thinner bar's and ARB, I have looked at it when I had a estate as a company car

I'd dump the Avo's and fit some Bilstein damper's personally as the billies are bump and rebound where most AVO's are rebound only and have a tendency to leak quite often,

Must say I never knew the 309 and 405 T/B's where the same length, ARB thou is different surely.

But thicker front and rear bar's are a must, Worth looking at some of the french sites as they have rallied them

 

I have got 25mm bars and a 30mm ARB on the back of my 306, not really suitable to be used on the road thou

Edited January 21, 2008 by Miles

[welshpug 1,655]

Just having a spare moment earlier and remembered about this mention of the size of 405 Torsion bars and whether Partner stuff would fit.

 

the crossmember between the 405 and partner do indeed look extremely similar, they do use the same front mounting for example, though the rear looks similar does have a different part number.

 

one thing to note though, some partner's use 21.3mm torsion bars and 21mm Anti roll bars, a healthy increase over the 405's 20mm all round (20mm T/B's for the estate but a 19mm ARB)

 

I checked the prices too, Torsion bars are £54 each and the anti roll bar £48 (plus vat) how cheap is that if they do fit!!

 

conversely, if 309 torsion bars do fit, then there's a cheap source of 21.3mm torsion bars for the 309ers out there!

[Jer309GTi 3]

Nice bit of detective work there!

 

I'm really busy at the moment but want to set a saturday aside to take the rear beam off of my van (partner) and try it on my car. But when that will be I have no idea lol

[welshpug 1,655]

oh, the larger bars come on the 600 and 800 vans too

[Jer309GTi 3]

Nice, mines a 600

 

Slightly OT, but do you know what the difference is between the 600 and 800? the brakes can't be any bigger on the 800 as they are already 266mm under 14" wheels, and you said the rear suspension is the same. Maybe damper ratings?

[KRISKARRERA 2 1 Cars]

Haha I can see you there swapping them with the work van's!

 

Obviously it's best to upgrade all 3 bars but is there any benefit to just changing the arb?

[Jer309GTi 3]

I'd have said so You would still have the ride of the standard TBs, but with an upgraded ARB to give a little less body roll. Not sure how this would affect the car on the limit, whether it would induce more understeer or oversteer.

[KRISKARRERA 2 1 Cars]

Are the GTI6 TBs 21mm too? Then again I found my dads GTI6 bloody rock solid and that was standard. Great for track but not so great with our awful roads.

Ahh another question: What size Tbs did the 405 T16 have? Nik?

[Jer309GTi 3]

Ahh another question: What size Tbs did the 405 T16 have? Nik?

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Wouldn't the T16 not have TBs as it is a 4bie?

[KRISKARRERA 2 1 Cars]

Ahh another question: What size Tbs did the 405 T16 have? Nik?

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Wouldn't the T16 not have TBs as it is a 4bie?

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Oh no I look stupid! Oh well, can't be bothered to delete it now.

[Jer309GTi 3]

[welshpug 1,655]

you eejit Kriss!

 

a fatter ARB in the rear of the 405 will make it understeer less, and roll less.

[Mr Teflon 1 1 Cars]

Just having a spare moment earlier and remembered about this mention of the size of 405 Torsion bars and whether Partner stuff would fit.

 

the crossmember between the 405 and partner do indeed look extremely similar, they do use the same front mounting for example, though the rear looks similar does have a different part number.

 

one thing to note though, some partner's use 21.3mm torsion bars and 21mm Anti roll bars, a healthy increase over the 405's 20mm all round (20mm T/B's for the estate but a 19mm ARB)

 

I checked the prices too, Torsion bars are £54 each and the anti roll bar £48 (plus vat)  how cheap is that if they do fit!!

 

conversely, if 309 torsion bars do fit, then there's a cheap source of 21.3mm torsion bars for the 309ers out there!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

That - is interesting!