Omex 600 On A Gti180 Engine

[dave205 19]

Dont know were to start really, but basically im looking at starting a new build and am interested to know what would be required with regards to the wiring loom to make the above engine run with an omex600 ecu. What things have to be wired up etc?!

 

My knowledge of aftermarket (or original for that matter) ecus is very limited.

 

 

[Sandy 189]

To run the full variable cam control, you'd need to look at the OMEX 710, DTA S60 or Emerald K3 etc. The 600 will only do switching, not full control. It is going to take some figuring out, so you really need to team up with a supplier that will be happy to help you and answer repeated questions etc! The are plenty companies that will either just sell you the bits and shy away or bone you for large amounts of labour to figure it out themselves, so be aware!

Other wise you could simplify greatly by going over the fixed cam timing and using DTA S40, OMEX 600 etc.

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

Or if you can find and fit the 2.2 version, Mind not sure if this has VVT

[Sandy 189]

It has, but it's a different VVT valve and cam sensor arrangement to the 180.

[Henry Yorke 269 3 Cars]

It has, but it's a different VVT valve and cam sensor arrangement to the 180.

 

Does that mate it "better"? I.e. the 2.2 is a saloon engine so they usually are cheaper than sporty hatch engines in general. I assume it will be nigh on identical to fit to the 180, but is it more suitable to a 205 conversion in bang for buck compared to the 180? Apologies if you have covered all this in the Embrace the EW topic as I might not be fully up to speed with the latest posts on that.

[Sandy 189]

Yeah I think it has been covered. Probably best to refer you to my early posts in that thread.

[dave205 19]

Or if you can find and fit the 2.2 version, Mind not sure if this has VVT

 

I might already have the 180 engine in the shed

[dave205 19]

To run the full variable cam control, you'd need to look at the OMEX 710, DTA S60 or Emerald K3 etc. The 600 will only do switching, not full control. It is going to take some figuring out, so

you really need to team up with a supplier that will be happy to help you and answer repeated questions etc! The are plenty companies that will either just sell you the bits and shy away or bone you for large amounts of labour to figure it

out themselves, so be aware!

Other wise you could simplify greatly by going over the fixed cam timing and using DTA S40, OMEX 600 etc.

 

Some usefull information there sandy, cheers.

 

What sort of difference in power gains will i get between having the vvt to come on at a set revs or having it variable and better controlled with one of the ecu's you've mentioned above? I'd like to run a set of cams aswell so want something that would control/run them ok.

 

On a seperate issue have you got much knoledge of this conversion?

[Sandy 189]

In a tuned engine, VVT becomes gradually less effective as cam profiles become more severe in my experience. A short duration cam will benefit greater from being moved across, typically fully retarded at idle for economy/emissions, fully advanced around 4-5000rpm and gradually retarded slightly at high rpm. Flicking it between one of two positions only really benefits the idle and not by very much, so you might as well get a fixed pulley and reduce the risk of the variable pulley getting screwed by running full duty most of the time. If longer duration cams are used, you'll almost certainly find that in a rolling road, you'll struggle to detect the small differences in power outside a very narrow advance angle window and the more aggressive flicking of the cam operation will often shag the variable pulley operation, after time a slow and vague cam angle will be observed. Factor in also, that from what I've seen, few mappers will really truly bother to properly test and evaluate the cam angle across a 3D map (it's not just about getting the best power at a given speed/load point, really you need to consider power vs fuel used and throttle response and smoothness, plus cam response time, going through a 20 degree cam swing between map sites isn't going to work in reality).

DTA makes it easy by offering manual cam control in real time on the dyno knob box; others really on ponderous key tapping or inputting and testing values, which realistically in a rolling road, with all the variables at work, will not really show you the way forward.

Edited June 27, 2012 by Sandy

[dave205 19]

So to try and summerise your reply, either leave the variable pulley and run standard cams or change it for fa fixed one and run different cams?

 

Obviously i dont want to change the cams if there is little gain to be had. What solid pulleys are available?

 

Also what are these engines like on standard cams when run on decent management and set up properly?

 

Apologies for all the questions, im just very intrested and thanks for the info you've supplied so far!

[layton1985 5]

my omex 500 is set to switch vvt at 2500rpm what will this do regards power?

 

Why is it set so low? I have read your post above sandy but don't fully understand it?

 

vvt was invented for economy so am I right in thinking if it is just switxhed on and kept on this will give you all the power the engine has to offer? not abit at a time as the vvt channges through the rpm range?

[Sandy 189]

The optimum cam angle with mild or standard cams (for best economy, emissions, power or responsiveness) varies greatly through the speed and load range. The default cam angle is fully retarded, which gives minimal overlap for efficient starting and idle; immediately beyond that the optimum angle will be less retarded and the fully advanced angle will only be optimum at certain speeds. Switching between fully retarded and fully advanceed is only going to be ideal for a few brief parts of the speed/load range, everywhere else it's going to be compromised, so running it switching is a bodge basically, to get it to work with a basic ECU. The more capable ECUs (DTA S60, OMEX 710 and Emerald K3 in fact), can control the cam angle, but mapping that in detail is a very long and involved process, that most mappers don't really get into, due to the time constraints of a session. Also what represents a good map won't be entirely objective and there will be a range of ways it can be done.

I frequently read/hear from other mappers saying they just ended up on full advance everywhere. That's only been my experience on engine where aftermarket cams have been used and installed at a super-retarded angle to avoid the risk of valve-piston contact. With mild or standard cams, optimising the map has always worked for me.

Edited July 14, 2012 by Sandy

[e8_pack 4]

is there a link to the embracing the EW thread?