Honing A Liner From 1600 8V

[Sinbad 16]

Just bought a honing tool off ebay to do my liners,any tips/advice before i start.

Btw ive got 12 liners so if i balls up a few getting the hang of it,i really dont care lol

Ive bought one with 180grit stone,is this ok??

[Sinbad 16]

anyone????

[Anthony 1,002]

What style honing/deglazing tool have you bought?

 

Generally speaking though, plenty of fluid, keep the speed down and move it up and down quickly will give you the nice cross-hatching you're looking for.

 

Wear on the liners (usually thrust side towards the top) will show up as a darker area with the usual block style deglazing tool.

[Sinbad 16]

Thanks mate,its this one ive bought.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DRAPER-CYLINDER-HONE-51-177mm-HONING-TOOL-56246-/320803700721?pt=UK_Hand_Tools_Equipment&hash=item4ab163fff1

[petert 585]

I don't like to spoil your enthusiasm, but honing an XU liner is best left to a professional, with experience. You will likely do more harm then good, ending up with an oval liner.

[Sandy 191]

Second that. Unless the liner's carefully clamped and supported, you're wasting your time.

[Liquid_106 97 1 Cars]

Not doubting what you're saying as you both have years of experience, but can you elaborate a little more? How could you oval the liner when the tool appears to self center and apply equal force to each leg. Can appreciate this might happen when boring out a liner to increase capacity, but doesn't honing take minimal material off the liner?

 

Again, not doubting what your saying, just a little more detail to help my (mis)understanding would be good

 

(and might help the OP )

Edited January 8, 2012 by Liquid_106

[Sinbad 16]

Not doubting what you're saying as you both have years of experience, but can you elaborate a little more? How could you oval the liner when the tool appears to self center and apply equal force to each leg. Can appreciate this might happen when boring out a liner to increase capacity, but doesn't honing take minimal material off the liner?

 

Again, not doubting what your saying, just a little more detail to help my (mis)understanding would be good

 

(and might help the OP )

My thoughts exactly.

Its only to deglaze the liner to make the rings wear in better.Not to get rid of lips or anything,its literally gonna be up down up in a matter of seconds.

[petert 585]

You'll notice there are flats milled on the side of the liner. This means the cross section is not linear if you cut a slice perpendicular through the liner. If you apply an axial compressive load on the liner (ie head torqued down) the induced stress will be greater where the liner is thinner, causing it to bulge more in these areas. Thus when the liner is out of the engine it is slightly oval. If you hone it as suggested, you'll make it round. When torqued down again it will be oval.

[Sinbad 16]

You'll notice there are flats milled on the side of the liner. This means the cross section is not linear if you cut a slice perpendicular through the liner. If you apply an axial compressive load on the liner (ie head torqued down) the induced stress will be greater where the liner is thinner, causing it to bulge more in these areas. Thus when the liner is out of the engine it is slightly oval. If you hone it as suggested, you'll make it round. When torqued down again it will be oval.

So How would an engine shop do it then??

As it wouldnt be torqued down??

[Liquid_106 97 1 Cars]

You'll notice there are flats milled on the side of the liner. This means the cross section is not linear if you cut a slice perpendicular through the liner. If you apply an axial compressive load on the liner (ie head torqued down) the induced stress will be greater where the liner is thinner, causing it to bulge more in these areas. Thus when the liner is out of the engine it is slightly oval. If you hone it as suggested, you'll make it round. When torqued down again it will be oval.

 

 

So How would an engine shop do it then??

As it wouldnt be torqued down??

 

 

Is this what your mean?

Edited January 8, 2012 by Liquid_106

[Anthony 1,002]

Oh right - best completely ignore what I said above then

 

I had always been of the belief that just quickly deglazing an uncompressed liner wasn't an issue and had (clearly wrongly!) been doing that in the past, with the resulting engines having spot-on compression, no blow-by and using no oil all suggesting the ring seals were good. Ho hum, you learn something new everyday

 

Out of interest, which axis does it go oval on? Horizontal (ie viewed from above) across the bore, or vertical (ie viewed from the side) down the length of the liner?

[Sandy 191]

You can actually squeeze the liners a couple of thou in your hand! Clamping in the relevant block with a gasket and deck plate is one way, the usual way is to use a clamping jig to compress and stabilize the liner while honing. The area that distorts most seems to be around the seat, which isn't likely to lead to major blow by or ring problems in itself, but slightly corrupts the stone angles and can wobble the piston around the bottom of the stroke, leading to accelerated wear patterns and power loss.

[Sinbad 16]

Anthony-You say you have done what i anticipated to do originally-Any problems??? You say there hasnt been?

 

Sandy and Petert-Have you ever done the way me and Anthony had spoke about and had problems?? While i appreciate the theory of it,has it actually happened,have you ever heard of it happening even??

Many thanks for all the replies.

[Sandy 191]

TUs and XUs yes, clamping the liners properly during boring and/or honing produces more consistent power and durability in my experience. The early engines I did loose with three leg hones did not turn out as well (power and durability) as the ones I've done latterly, using proper liner honing methods or new liners. If you don't have access to the facilities, new KS liners aren't terribly expensive.

[Anthony 1,002]

For the sake of completeness, I assume that there's no similar consideration deglazing non wet-lined engines (eg iron-block XU)?

[Sandy 191]

Some blocks benefit greatly from the use of a deckplate when boring/honing, especially if bored to thin wall thickness but the XU iron block is pretty stable at 87mm, which is as far as I take it, the TU iron block and EW block are immensely rigid. With the iron blocks, they can relax alot if the deck height is reduced, so methodical approach is needed then, ie deck... bore... light deck... hone.

[matyasg 0]

... If you don't have access to the facilities, new KS liners aren't terribly expensive.

Where are these KS liners available? It's a problem here to get a new piston/liner for XU9J4 engines.

[Sandy 191]

I don't know, one of the guys I work with has a supplier, I just get them through him.

[Matteo 17 1 Cars]

Where are these KS liners available? It's a problem here to get a new piston/liner for XU9J4 engines.

 

Drop a message to Miles here on the forum. I have just bought from him 4 new KS liners forn my XU9JA.

[Sinbad 16]

I think the main concern over the liners is cost.

How much are they as ive seen them for over £200

[Matteo 17 1 Cars]

Branded, good quality engine parts are never cheap . Price is well over £200 per set.

[Sinbad 16]

Branded, good quality engine parts are never cheap . Price is well over £200 per set.

Exactly.

So when somebody says they arent terribly expensive,theyre talking dribble.

How on earth is that more cost effective then either A-Doing it yourself,or even better paying an engine shop to do it! lol

[Sandy 191]

Good luck to you chap. Do it right first time... spend less. If you screw it up, the gaskets will cost you most of that. Maybe you can prove me wrong and if so: fantastic

Edited January 10, 2012 by Sandy

[Sinbad 16]

Good luck to you chap. Do it right first time... spend less. If you screw it up, the gaskets will cost you most of that. Maybe you can prove me wrong and if so: fantastic

I agree with do it once do it right etc.

What about an engine shop doing it? Is that wrong?? Or is it your way or no way-ie replacing liners when utterly unnessecery to do so??

Edited January 10, 2012 by Sinbad