Xu10J4Rs Camshaft Regrind?

[cheesegrater 43 1 Cars]

Hi all, with the impending leakage from my cam carriers because I didn't RTV them I'm toying with a cam regrind. Its going to be for road use and occasional track so I think a fast road cam would suffice autosprint @ 262° offer a regrind for £175 for the pair which seems very reasonable? Pipercross also offer a similar setup @ 256° for 210 plus vat or is it worth more than paying double that for new cams?

I read somewhere that people only get the inlet(?) reground?

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

You really need a remap with cam's, I know some people say otherwise but to gain the max from them it's a must, I'd go with a Regrind if you don;t want to run the risk of pistons and valves hitting, Either a Peter Taylor (Down Under) or Kent, I would never touch Piper as they have had more names than Hot dinners (Almost)

[Anthony 1,000]

Worth remembering before you go any further that you're fairly limited with cam choice on a standard '6 engine - firstly because the management will only cope with so much without an (expensive) remap, but more to the point, there's not much piston-valve clearance at TDC which will severely restrict cam choice if you want to time them up properly.

[cheesegrater 43 1 Cars]

I took mapping as a given like you say it can only work it so much How much are we looking at a remap? £300 plus? How much does Peter charge and a rough idea for Kent?

Cheers for the speedy replies!

[Anthony 1,000]

Have you considered where to get it mapped, as there's very few places that can map the standard management - Wayne @ Chipwizards is one, but he's up North somewhere (near Halifax IIRC) and in the region of £400 if memory serves me right. You can't just go to your local rolling road and have it tweaked.

 

Plus, am I right in thinking that you've not even had the car on the road with the '6 engine yet? If not, I'd just put it on standard cams and management for now and enjoy it - it's plenty quick enough (for a while anyway ) in standard trim compared to an 8 valver. Put the money you would have spent on cams and a remap in a pot towards doing it properly if you feel the need for more power further down the line... or getting something like a diff that'll make far more difference than a few extra ponies will.

 

(of course, I say that slightly hypocritically - I've got a Petert Stage 1 inlet in my '6 engine in waiting, but for what it cost me used it would have been rude not to really and it's still mild enough that it should work reasonably well with the standard management)

[cheesegrater 43 1 Cars]

Haha I know nothing wrong with moar power but theyre coming out anyway unless my awesome cleaning up of the carriers provides a good seal. I was talking to the guys up at Pug1off which originally put the idea in my head so I'd assume they'd have a contact for mapping. Maybe I'll put it in the pipeline! To be honest I thought regrinds were going to be a lot more I think that's why I've got it into my head!

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

Sounds like there just trying to sell a product, After seeing a invoice from them for a 8v belt change at over £200.00 they went down in my book

[Paul_13 212 1 Cars]

If you thinking of a petert cam I wouldn't mind getting one at the same time. As I have a spare inlet cam.

[petert 550]

£175 for two isn't too bad. I normally charge $190 for one, or $240 for two. Better pricing for 205 members. Where I come unstuck is the postage to/from UK. The XU10J4R/RS cams are a bit heavier than XU9J4 cams, pushing over the cheap 2Kg mark. I have a few 2nd hand cams if you'd prefer to buy one outright and save on shipping. Shipping is also less for multiples.

 

Numbers such as @ 262° or @ 256° don't tell you much about the actual grind. You need the lift @ 1mm, or lift @ 0.050" which I prefer, to make a valid comparison between grinds. The standard duration of 205º @ 0.050" is very mild, thus they're responsive to camshaft changes. My Stage I grind for the XU10J4RS (I know Miles doesn't like that term) is 215º @ 0.050", 0.380" lift. That means that it will still work with the standard ECU. Having said that, a recent customer had the same grind on inlet & exhaust. With an aftermarket ECU he made 108kW @ wheels (up from 92-94kW standard).

 

I can also offer slightly larger regrinds without compromising the base circle, however for the novice engine builder it becomes an issue as the lift @ TDC figures rise and aren't accounted for, meaning bent valves.

 

I've also used my Stage I Mi16 grind (226º @ 0.050", 0.350") and with an after market ECU they make stunning horsepower. You'd think the loss in lift is an issue but it's not.

 

If you're considering upgrading, but not sure where to start, I'd suggest finding a spare exhaust cam to grind. The two cams are identical, other than the drive for the vacuum pump. This means you can start with the reground 215º exhaust cam on the inlet, then if you want more, move that cam to the exhaust and get something bigger for the inlet.

 

If you want to go bigger on the regrind process, comprising the base circle, I also now provide 1mm lash caps. These fit on the end of valve, restoring the preload of the lifter. The standard cams are very hard and will last a very long time if you look after them.

 

What numbers are stamped into you cam Anthony?

Edited January 3, 2012 by petert

[Baz 421]

I'd be interested in one or two too lads if it helps/reduces prices!

 

I guess i can go bigger due to management/bodies, but still don't have a lot of room to play with on lift!

 

Peter, am i understanding this correctly; you've run Mi16 St1 spec regrind on an RS without issue? Sounds good to me if so, i'd certainly be interested!

[Anthony 1,000]

What numbers are stamped into you cam Anthony?

Whilst I can't see it in the picture I've got to hand, I'm pretty sure that it was 435H (or something to that effect - a mis-stamped 435A possibly as that would make more sense?) as per your website as I remember double-checking that it was what it was meant to be

 

If it helps, you originally did it for All_Praise_The_GTi (Nat) and I think was one of the first RS regrinds that you did judging by the wording on the email that you sent him.

[Dizzee stuff 33 1 Cars]

I too would be interesed in a mild pair of peters camshafts

[jorg 11]

Peter, Do you stamp numbers on all your regrinds? and If you do, whereabouts doing you normally do stamp them? I have a set of S16 ones and would just like to double check they are what you say they are.

 

Cheers

 

Geoff

[welshpug 1,622]

I've a few J4R and RS cams spare if it helps fill the box up for a courier, could be tempted in something as I've got an extra mm to play with over stock @ TDC.

[Anthony 1,000]

Thought you had a pair of Newman PH2's in yours Mei?

[welshpug 1,622]

yup, but as I've got some spare cams and Pete knows these engines, might as well give them a try

[petert 550]

435A is the 215º cam. A couple of early ones were a different grind. Just making sure.

All my cams have a number ground into the end (could be either). The S16 cams, if hydraulic regrinds, will be 426A or 426B.

Edited January 3, 2012 by petert

[cheesegrater 43 1 Cars]

Looks like a group send off might be in order! What power gains would you expect from standard management and standard remapped? I know its bit like asking how long is a piece of string....

[petert 550]

If we can get up to five cams, I'll do them at $140 each + shipping (spread over the group). For more than five, $130 each.

 

Shipping via Australia Post - Express Post International

1 cam - $90.45

2 cams - $134.25

3 cams - $189.00

4 cams - $232.80

5 cams - $265.65

 

Power gains are always hard to predict and rely on feedback. Here are some I can recall:

 

Case 1: Standard GTi6 ECU with 16H426B inlet and 16H423A exhaust. I don't know it's ever been dyno'd but it needs remapping. Lots of trouble with idle speed. Owner is stoked however!

 

Case 2: Haltech E6X with RSH435A on inlet and exhaust, made 108kW @ 6500 @ wheels. Would have gone higher but ran out of fuel delivery (probably pump).

 

Case 3: Haltech E6X with 16H426B on inlet and exhaust, built by Magic with one of his special exhausts, made 120kW @ wheels.

[Dizzee stuff 33 1 Cars]

I would like the RSH435A X2 to run on my inlet & exhaust, I believe this will run on my standard engine & managment??. My only problem is ,as yet i dont have any old cams to send away, unless anyone can help?

Edited January 4, 2012 by Dizzee stuff

[jorg 11]

435A is the 215º cam. A couple of early ones were a different grind. Just making sure.

All my cams have a number ground into the end (could be either). The S16 cams, if hydraulic regrinds, will be 426A or 426B.

 

Cheers Peter, got the cams out of the packaging to have a look for the numbers and found one had 426A and the other 426B

 

[dcc 855]

Hi Peter

 

What are the differences with the J4RS cam and the J4R in terms of a regrind? Could be tempted into this...

 

I ask because I have a spare XU10J4R head. The pistons are Standard pockets. What cam would you suggest?

[dcc 855]

I meant cam profile* for a standard bottom end. I am running mappable ignition and throttle bodies.

[Dizzee stuff 33 1 Cars]

Will there be a group buy ??

[petert 550]

Will there be a group buy ??

 

I guess so. I'll start something in the Group Buy section.