Coilovers!

[backroadpug 12]

Hi all is it just me or does anyone else think coil overs are crap.

I used to have yellow koni adjustables with 55mm springs and koni adj rear shocks fitted to my rallye, and boy did it used to go round corners.

Problem was the front sat a bit higher than the rear so decided to go coil overs

Fitted a set of avo GTZ coil overs to the front and adj avos to the rear the car sat how I wanted,but handled like crap.

I spent weeks trying to set them up then found the springs were fully compressing and bottoming out on tight corners.

Fitted new springs 400lb car was even worse skipping round corners so sold them.

Now just fitted gaz GHA coil overs with 250lb springs to the front.

Car handling still doesnt feel a patch on the konis and now with the coil overs fully wound down the arch sits about 3 inches above the tyre(looks like i have a couple of bodys hidden in the back)

So have just come to the conclusion COIL OVERS SUCK.

Will just have to order a new set of konis

Richard

[Anthony 1,003]

Coilovers are fine.

 

Dampers that IMO are inferior to the Koni's coupled with spring rates / lengths that are completely mismatched for the application however... well, it's no surprise you're unhappy.

[boombang 2]

On a side note, a 205 has coil-overs on the front as standard.

[Batfink 201]

On a side note, a 205 has coil-overs on the front as standard.

 

pedantic :lol:

[GLPoomobile 958]

You've also implied that you are going lower than -55mm on the front. That won't be helping matters. Bump steer much?

[welshpug 1,683]

My height adjustable coilovers are awesome, I'm running AST's with 180 lb springs and 21mm torsion bars, Koni yellow rear dampers, standard ride height (will get matching AST rears when I get the car on the road again)

[rallyeash 155]

with 400 lb springs what can you expect! im running 300's on my track spec'd 205 and there hard enough.

 

matched correctly coilovers are good, just slung on there any old way they aint.

 

Ash

[Daz_C 8 1 Cars]

I'm running modified custom PTS Bilstein height adjustable coilovers with 400lb springs. I use the car to get too and from trackdays (including germany). Its a hard ride on the roads but handles very well and even better on a track. I've never had skipping issues .

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

As said a decent coil over will be fine coupled to various spring rates, The cheap ones like the base model Avo's and Gaz's I've never liked at all and I think even the std dampers work better.

[feb 47]

I must have been unlucky as I found the ASTs that my Forester came with very bouncy, the car was hopping like a goat on bumpy roads. On smooth roads iit was a revelation though but how often do you drive on smooth roads?

 

That was with 7kg/5kg front/rear springs respectively and a Forester weighs x1.7 more than a 205 so I imagine with 400lb springs a 205 must be very tricky to drive on the wet.

 

Daz_C what rear dampers and torsions bars/ARB are you using?

[backroadpug 12]

cheers guys so do you think the 250lb springs are to much for the rallye.

It will soon be getting a heart transplant tu5j4 so with the extra weight should these be ok.

Ill keep them just now see what like then decide what to do.

[rallyeash 155]

not sure if the j4 engine weighs anymore than the original iron rallye anchor weight.

 

what beam and rear tb's you running?

[Cameron 16]

You had 400lb springs on a Rallye, on the road!? You crazy!

 

I have 350lb springs on my Mi16 with Gaz Gold coilovers and they're awesome. A bit hard for the road tbh but also a bit soft for the track. As a comparison while the ride is very firm, it's much smoother with the Golds than it ever was with GHA's and 250lb springs - what a difference a decent damper makes!

 

I reckon your problems are down to bad dampers and / or poor set up. It's not a dig, but did you get your dampers valved to suit your new springs when you fitted them? If not, that could well be the cause of all your problems!

[Baz 421]

Coilovers under £500 are a downgrade fom standard IMO, you'll have to spend to get decent kit i'm afraid. Call me a snob but the lesser brands, Gaz, Avo, especially Spax etc are all pretty shoddy in my experience, on many plains.

 

TBH i prefer running simple Koni's in most cases, especially on the road, mainly down to the fact that as soon as you go coilovers you'll get height and spring weight matching issues that *most* seem to gloss over and forget, why anyone would want to run over 150lb or so springs on the front of an otherwise quite standard car is beyond me, i find them understeer tastic, but then i probably don't drive as lathargicly as the average driver.

 

 

Unless you're going to spend a fair amount on decent dampers and up the spring rate all round (ie. torsion bars too) the car to match, please don't bother.

Edited March 22, 2011 by Baz

[Cameron 16]

Yeah I'll agree with Baz on that last point, fitting TB's that match the front is a must!

[Batfink 201]

I ran 280lb springs on a rallye on the road and that was certainly firm! Not hard enough for track use though..

[lemmingzappa 75 1 Cars]

If you're running standard TB's etc.. then I probably wouldn't want to go any stiffer than 150-180lb springs. Even 250lb were way too firm for me on GHA's.

[backroadpug 12]

Its the rallye rear end on it lowered one spline with avo adjustable shocks with solid mounts

The standard spings on the avos were 180lb then I had 400lb ones and now 250lb with the gazs.

the 250lb where what gaz recomended for track day use the handleing is better(still not as good as the konis) but just sits high?

[Batfink 201]

If Gaz use a tall spring then it will never sit low. You might have to get a shorter spring length.

[welshpug 1,683]

As Batfink said, the Springs GAZ seem to supply are not made for running low at all, you need to ensure its not just bottoming out too.

 

I'd echo the comments about making sure the front to rear balance is maintained, a rallye has pretty weedy torsion bars so I'm not surprised it was crap with 400 lb springs up front!!

 

The TU5J4 engine isn't a light lump, though it wont be a massive increase if the original was an iron unit as well, slightly heavier than the 8v gti unit but not quite as much as the iron XU's I believe, does sit bolt upright so a bit further forward than the XU.

 

 

 

I should point out my AST's are on my 1100 kilo ZX 16v not the 205, and the 180 lb springs work very well on the road, though their kit specificallt for this car and the 306 runs 285 lb they are intended for a higher rear spring rate as well.

 

They should retail at around £600+ vat for the front pair afaik, £850+ vat for the full set.

 

 

Feb, have heard it can be a bit hit and miss getting the right damping rates straight off from AST, but a simple re-valve would sort that and I doubt would cost you anything.

A friend had a Classic Turbo 2000 running them and it didn't feel any different to the o.e KYB's, till you pushed on down a favourite B-Road and it was quite a different machine, Especially with the Geometry set up properly by Curtis at ATS to Prodrive PPP settings, an immense amount of mechanical grip over what I'm used to!

 

Loo and power oversteer when provoked were the orders of the day, though it'd still power understeer if you were hamfisted

[feb 47]

Feb, have heard it can be a bit hit and miss getting the right damping rates straight off from AST, but a simple re-valve would sort that and I doubt would cost you anything.

A friend had a Classic Turbo 2000 running them and it didn't feel any different to the o.e KYB's, till you pushed on down a favourite B-Road and it was quite a different machine, Especially with the Geometry set up properly by Curtis at ATS to Prodrive PPP settings, an immense amount of mechanical grip over what I'm used to!

 

Loo and power oversteer when provoked were the orders of the day, though it'd still power understeer if you were hamfisted

 

I had them re-valved with the new piston design etc only to become worse.

Whereas the car would previously be OK on smooth roads, after the rebuild there was so much stiction that it felt like being in a shaker bottle, even at speeds as low as 5-10mph I would jump up and down on the seat on a smooth road no matter how the rebound was adjusted! It was impossible to live with them so I removed them 2 days later and had a set of Sti pink springs fitted that are designed for the OE KYB dampers. Together with a 21.5mm rear ARB the car drives fantastically ever since.

 

Hats off to Curtis for refunding me though. I guess every car is different and what didn't work on me might work in other cars, also suspension is something completely subjective (or maybe I was spoilt by using my previous 205 as a benchmark).

 

Indeed the geometry alignment Curtis does really transforms the car.

 

In your Volcane have you got uprated torsion and anti roll bars to match the AST rear shocks?

 

The key as others have said is to get a matched set of dampers/springs.

Edited March 22, 2011 by feb

[welshpug 1,683]

its not a Volcane, its a "16v" so 21mm torsion bars and 24mm ARB as standard like the Xsara

 

I managed to grab a bargain with the front pair only on ebay brand new at £300, running Koni rears on mid setting till I can afford a matching pair of AST's.

 

 

I may increase the Rear arb to the 28/25.4mm hybrid item that is available for the 306, but I've yet to find out its specific spring rate.

[Baz 421]

the 250lb where what gaz recomended for track day use the handleing is better(still not as good as the konis) but just sits high?

 

GAZ are telling you what they think would be ideal, but rather stupidly either neglect or forget to mention that that's based upon the whole car matching, ie. torsion bars too i'm sure. I also have my own wonders/suspicion of why they do it too though...

 

At the risk of repeating myself as i've said it already, anything over 150lb springs on the front with nothing matched at the rear is a waste of time IMO.

 

But then i do prefer a stiffer rear, i'd rather control a slide than be understeering out of control at the first opportunity. It's more important to maintain ccontact/grip levels and therefore suspension/geo settings on the front of a FWD car because the front wheels do everything, the same reason why i'd always put the 2 best tyres on the front. (cue: can of worms...?)

 

Again this is only my opinion, based upon experience of lots of different 205's across 10 or so years. If i didn't have first hand experience of many different setups and what works and what doesn't, for me at least anyway, rather than just going by hearsay or what i've 'settled' with but never actually tried anything else, i wouldn't feel i have a right to post an informed reply.

[R.G_205 0]

got rokkor ones from ebay £175 with rear dampers and my car handles amazing for cheap coil overs i was well impressed then i took my brother out in it and he got a pair for his gti6 205 then i took a mate out in it and he got a set for his mi16 205.

ther not to hard at all but i got it sat abit lower than the usual 205 i dropped the back 3 notches (tyer in the arch but not sat on the bump stops so ther is still rear suspention travel and the front sill is lower to the ground that the rear and not to much camber either so id say thumbs up to coil overs

[Baz 421]

got rokkor ones from ebay £175 with rear dampers and my car handles amazing for cheap coil overs i was well impressed then i took my brother out in it and he got a pair for his gti6 205 then i took a mate out in it and he got a set for his mi16 205.

ther not to hard at all but i got it sat abit lower than the usual 205 i dropped the back 3 notches (tyer in the arch but not sat on the bump stops so ther is still rear suspention travel and the front sill is lower to the ground that the rear and not to much camber either so id say thumbs up to coil overs