Work On Your Own 205?

[Tom Fenton 1,528]

I've got a forum members 205 in at the moment for some work. I'm no professional garage, but my main job is engineering, and having grown up helping out in my fathers garage business, its fair to say I know my way around a car, 205's especially.

 

The car in question to my knowledge has been through the hands of a few forum members, and also to a reputable specialists. I'm not saying who as it isn't important, and won't say who if you PM me either.

 

However what I do want to say to everyone, and this has certainly applied to me in my younger days, is please do things properly.

 

I've found a few things on this particular car that would certainly spoil the car in terms of driving pleasure, some bordering on potentially dangerous.

 

Such as; one odd 306 upright fitted to one side of the car making cornering right "interesting" to say the least. Ball joint clamp bolts overtightened to the point that the threaded shank was visibly stretched/deformed. Steering column clamp to the rack fitted with a normal M8 set screw and plain nut with no locking device rather than the proper shouldered/shanked 10.9 grade bolt.

 

So, a public service announcement. Please, if you work on your own car, do things properly. If it means ordering an getting hold of a particular bolt, then so be it. In the event of god forbid an accident, do you really want to be stood in court, explaining why you fitted a make do bolt instead of the proper thing etc? Torque things up, a torque wrench really isn't that expensive in the scheme of things. If you claim to not be able to afford one, then look at the garage labour costs you are saving by DIY; typical garage charges mean a torque wrench can be bought for the price of 2 hours labour.

[hexhamstu 9]

You can say do things properly, but some people think thats fine. I was explaining to a friend about the grade of bolts and he had no idea that 1 bolt was any different from another. So I don't think it's always a lack of trying. It's just not being informed. And everyone knows that tighter is ALWAYS better, so there is no need for a torque wrench

[SurGie 54]

I totally agree, if a jobs worth doing it's worth doing well & properly with good research. Even if it means it takes much longer, like my own project for instance, over 2 years and still loads to sort.

Edited September 8, 2010 by SurGie

[Batfink 201]

yes dad

 

I bought my torque wrench ages ago. Its surprising how many bolts and nuts can be overtightened by hand..

[MrG 3]

I've been slowly doing the same thing to our recent aquisition, so many little things that have been done incorrectly its untrue, why they didn't just do it right originally is beyond me.

[jord294 89]

i know exactly what your saying tom

 

i too, have recently worked on a couple of 205s which have supposedly been to reputable 'specialists', only to find i've had to re-do some of the work again.

 

if a customer comes to me, and says they want work doing, the job will be done 100% right. this is one reason i prefer to use genuine parts

 

i treat anyones car, as if it were my own.

Edited September 8, 2010 by jord294

[AJA_GTi 0]

Very good thread tom.

 

And written with a lot of diplomacy

 

Dicking about with cars if you dont know could end up killing someone down the line

[GLPoomobile 958]

I think this highlights why, for me, given the choice I'd rather buy a 205 in as original unmolested condition as possible. Sure, it doesn't gaurantee that it's not had some bad servicing in the past, but it gives you a fighting chance. When you've bought one that's been though countless owners and had modifications done, you never know what horrors lie beneath until you start checking things over extensively.

 

I don't proclaim to be any expert, far from it indeed! I've still loads to learn, but I know enough to know that the work done on my current 205 by the 'specialists '(prior to my ownership) was - and I'll be polite for once - sub-par. A point reinforced by Miles' recent disassembly of the cylinder head and the oddities he found.

 

I'd also like to highlight the importance of getting a GOOD torque wrench. No point having one if it's not accurate!

[mickie 3]

i dont really understand why they would make such a mess of the upright and steering column but i can understand the over tight balljoint bolt.. i fitted a couple of baz's bolts so im ok

 

for me i think i'd rather buy a new car or totally re-build an old car as thats the only way to truly know if every last bolt is ok..

 

unless you but mounts from compbrake that were put together by a monkey

[McDude 33]

I draw massive parallels between my house and my 205:

 

Both suffer from age so things naturally need replacing, both have been owned by bodgers and every job usually involves me saying "what c-unit thought this was an appropriate fix?"

[Batfink 201]

I think this highlights why, for me, given the choice I'd rather buy a 205 in as original unmolested condition as possible. Sure, it doesn't gaurantee that it's not had some bad servicing in the past, but it gives you a fighting chance. When you've bought one that's been though countless owners and had modifications done, you never know what horrors lie beneath until you start checking things over extensively.

 

I don't proclaim to be any expert, far from it indeed! I've still loads to learn, but I know enough to know that the work done on my current 205 by the 'specialists '(prior to my ownership) was - and I'll be polite for once - sub-par. A point reinforced by Miles' recent disassembly of the cylinder head and the oddities he found.

 

I'd also like to highlight the importance of getting a GOOD torque wrench. No point having one if it's not accurate!

 

 

Some of the worst cars I have seen have been bog standard, and the worst were owned by mechanics who knew better and did the cheapest fix they could. One worked for TVR which explains a lot...

You basically need someone who cares about what they are doing..

[Anthony 1,000]

Some people need to accept their limitations when it comes to things like working on cars - not everyone has the mindset, experience, or tools to be able to work on cars, and especially not jobs beyond basic servicing.

 

Certainly like many here, I've had the "pleasure" of fixing all manner of bodges and repairs that have been done incorrectly, which have often left the car either unreliable or borderline dangerous. Unfortunately, atleast some of this work was done by people that really should know better.

 

Nowhere in my experience is bodging my widespread than it is when it comes to vehicle electrics - much of what I see is a breakdown, or worse fire, waiting to happen. Bare unfused wiring, twisted together wires, critical safety parts bypassed and completely inadequate gauge wiring used in repairs. Again, unfortunately "professionals" are often just as guilty as anyone else, with your average professional alarm installation typically a lesson in how not to....

[Alastairh 47]

yes dad

 

I bought my torque wrench ages ago. Its surprising how many bolts and nuts can be overtightened by hand..

 

I will never forget the head rebuild my mate did on a 205 STDT, He started it up only to find it pissed its oil and water out and it ran like a sack of s*it. Only to realise his trusty torque wrench he had for years had gone out of calibration by some way when retested with a new all bells and whistles snap on job it was all spot on .

 

Anthony, as for electrics, shush, that keeps some people in a job

 

Al

[DaveW 6]

Yes Al he blamed the torque wrench for everything Oh and dont let Kate on any electrics

[one-lady-owner 1]

The thing is, alot of people will choose something like the 205GTi to buy and try to learn how to pick up a spanner and actually use it. It's an older car, when you lift the bonnet you can actually see the engine (I was amazed by my ex's friends who were astounded that an engine actually looked like a mechanical object rather than just plastic covers that only the very select few ever get to see what's actually underneath!) and hey, we've all got to start somewhere! Some of the truly horrendous bodges I've done to my first car (1.1 106) were shocking, but they worked.

 

Granted there's no excuse for someone like a TVR mechanic (as mentioned earlier) to be bodging parts of the car, especially not long term! To me a bodge is a short term solution to a problem I can't solve properly at that moment for one reason or another. As Anthony has said, some people don't have the mindset to work on a mechanical problem, but then again, some people might have, but have to learn rather than seemingly being born with mechanical knowledge ingrained into them.

[flipperthebushkangaroo 2]

I draw massive parallels between my house and my 205:

 

Both suffer from age so things naturally need replacing, both have been owned by bodgers and every job usually involves me saying "what c-unit thought this was an appropriate fix?"

 

Know that feeling well, some of the electrics in my house are truely scary.

As for the 205, had the head replaced a couple of years back and have had a few starting issues since. so as i started to remove the engine so far i have found, air intake set nut sheared, air box only connected by one bolt and distributer not bolted on at all. On the plus side i did gain a gasket scraper (found it nder the headlight!!!!)

Needless to say i will not be using this particular garage again. Am trying to do everything my self now (with the ssistance of advice from everyone on here!!)

[damien 22 1 Cars]

your find a lot of people use these "specialists" as they dont have the brain cells to do the work themself i.e me.

if i had the time/tools and knowledge to do work myself i would, i have no problem with small things but when it comes to big things like engine building/rear beams, welding etc...

we trust these "specialists" with our cars as we dont have a choice in the matter not just because we cant be bothered. this is the 3rd time ive been burnt by other people working on my car and i know it wont be the last time.

[pug_ham 242 3 Cars]

Well said Tom, some of the work I've seen (& corrected) by "specialists" (thankfully not on here) was shocking with all kinds of bodges used for management swaps etc.

 

Not quite as bad but still dangerous was one with a 1.9 hub one side & base or 1.6 the other (can't remember which it was now) but the owner of this car had paid them good money for these bodges & still got the car back in a none working state which was a very simple fix once I'd finished tidying up the mess they'd made.

 

Please, if you work on your own car, do things properly.

This is the main reason I do all the work I can on my own cars & don't mind helping out friends etc when they need something doing or just to save them paying the garage labour rates.

 

Graham.

[tdr_1976 41 1 Cars]

I couldn't agree more.

 

I work on Military Fast jets for a living, and it sets the standard for everything I do, everything fitted and double checked after completing the job and then a few miles later.

[swordfish210 20]

I work on Military Fast jets for a living

 

Sweeeeet

[Cameron 16]

The problem is to do things properly you need 3 things that not all car owners have:

 

1 - The right tools, not just a socket set and spanners / adjustable, but a comprehensive socket set, torque wrenches, punches, drills, nuts and bolts etc.

2 - Patience, and the will to do things properly rather than just "get them done".

3 - Contingency i.e. a bit of cash in case there is something you need that you haven't accounted for. For example I budgeted an extra £200 (as it was a massive job) to fix the flywheel on my Mondeo and I'm very glad I did as there were stretch bolts that needed to be replaced (despite recommendations from mates to just put the old flywheel bolts in) and I had also managed to buy the wrong release bearing and the correct one was £170!

 

The thing is, most 205 owners don't have all of these things. That isn't meant to sound snobby, it's taken me about 8 years of working on cars to finally collect my comprehensive toolkit, and I still find myself needing the new one now and then. It's also taken me a long time to build the patience to want to do things properly, and to get the experience needed to judge when there could be something that ends up costing more then I originally expected. You have to accept that everybody has to start somewhere so you can't expect them to be the same standard as you, when you've been doing it for many many years. I do see where you're coming from though, there are certainly people out there who just shouldn't be allowed to work on their own cars!

[large 33]

I find this an interesting thread and ever so slightly hypocritical.

Now that certainly is not directed at anyone who has posted a reply and defiantly not at Tom.

 

We are all guilty bodging thinks now and again and people regularly give out advice, you don't need this or that just leave it off. Who are we to say it is safe to leave any component off a car!

O.K. there is a vast amount of experience and qualifications on here but the unexpected happens on a daily basis and what today is seen as an acceptable fix can very quickly become the worlds worst bodge.

 

Having said that I think it is a point well raised and certainly food of thought and maybe a bit of a wake up call for some.

[flipperthebushkangaroo 2]

As Cameron said it takes a while to get all the right kit, I know full well i have a lot to learn and a lot to buy still. but taking your time and getting it right is the main lesson to learn.

I am another who works will military Fast jets and while we get all the equipment we need provded and very detailed instructions for every job we do there are still some cowboys who take dangerous shortcuts. One of my civilian collegues was so bad he lost his job a few weeks back!!!!!

I guess this just goes to prove that if someone is going to be dangerous then nothing you can do will stop them, so even if you pay to get a job done have a good look round after to see that nothing obvious has been missed.

[swordfish210 20]

I work on Military Fast jets for a living

 

I am another who works will military Fast jets

 

 

Ok, which one of you is in this picture:

 

[flipperthebushkangaroo 2]

Certainly not me, where i work we make the aircraft come to the airfield not the other way round!!!!!

Bet he knows the smell of adrenolin (sp) though!!!