Water/oil Hoses

[blessed6383 0]

does anyone know the spec hoses i should get as am buying some coloured hoses from

 

http://www.hoseworld.com/acatalog/Multi-pu...ter__Blue_.html

 

and was not to sure on the pressures of the water and oil? (my car is not fitted with a thermostat in so cant see there being much pressure but could be wrong?)

 

i know the water temp will need to be a min of 150 degrees but will oil need to be the same?

 

and also which hoses would be best suited?

 

thanks for any advice/info

Edited July 10, 2010 by blessed6383

[rescue dude 0]

Last hoses I got were from BBM.

 

I'm very pleased with them.

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

Chris>

 

I'm really sorry to say this but I think you have the wrong idea about a few things and are going about your engine build in a rather odd way. I say this because you always seem to be having problems.

 

For example why are you running without a thermostat? A thermostat also has nothing to do with the pressure in your cooling system.

 

A thermostat may not be needed for exclusively track use, and the same goes for a water pump; but on a road car, both are needed. The 'stat is there to keep water around your engine block whilst it warms up, to help it get up to temperature, i.e. the temperature it should be running at.

 

What exactly are you trying to achieve {a} with your car and {b} by buying hoses from that supplier? Are you trying to save money? I can see they appear to be cheap, but they will be straight and cause complications in the engine bay.

 

Kits of hoses from Miles and BBM are already made to suit most XU engine installations, with the correct diameters, lengths, bends and specifications. Why not just get one of those kits and tailor as necessary?

 

And coolant temps rarely should be over 90 degC in normal running. This is why fans cut in about 92 degC.

 

I'm not trying to belittle you or make you feel silly here, I am asking you a genuine question about why you seem hell bent on going about this in the most complicated way known to man?

 

Regards

 

Rich

Edited July 10, 2010 by DrSarty

[welshpug 1,627]

you'll still see up to 1 bar in the cooling system regardless of the fact you have no thermostat (which I would advise you fit BTW to prevent the engine taking too long to warm up and causing excessive premature wear)

 

 

and as Rescue dude pointed out, BBM do pretty much everything you'd need for an 8 valve, gti6 or Mi16 205.

[engine killer 5]

I got my oil hoses and coolant hoses for my 205 Mi16 from BBM too.

 

oh, iirc one from Miles too

Edited July 10, 2010 by engine killer

[blessed6383 0]

hi rich

 

the reason its not running a thermostat was due to the fact i always had over heating issues when sat in traffic when was fitted in my last mi

i had an extra fan fitted to run on a seprate switch but after removing the thermostat helped this alot, i did try 2 other thermo's so know it wasn't just a faulty one (unless theres something else that could of been wrong?)

 

also wanted every hose couloured (bottom coolant hoses) and was unaware that baker/miles did the hole lot for water/oil and vacum? my mistake if they do as didn't realise this.

 

welshpug

 

i was unaware that this would cause excessive wear maybe thats just me being thick lol just as car reaches temp pretty quick

Edited July 10, 2010 by blessed6383

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

(unless theres something else that could of been wrong?)

 

Nail on head!

 

Seriously, you know we've met and I AM trying to help.

 

Any car set-up right will not have cooling issues sat in traffic. You had a problem before and I fear you're going the right way to have more problems when this new build eventually gets on the road.

 

For example, 2 fans is just not needed. My 2.2 on the EuroTrip being bladdered up and down mountain passes as well as sitting in traffic never had the fan go beyond low speed.

 

Furthermore: I really wouldn't worry too much right now about fully matching/coordinated hoses. Get the thing running with anything and working properly to weed out any problems, and after that replace the hosing if you really have to, even one hose at a time.

 

I've said my piece and am confident you are capable of making something unique which works properly. But I think you need to solve a few basic issues first and approach some of the critical basics like engine cooling using a much simpler approach.

[rescue dude 0]

The overheating issues you have. Does the car disappear in a huge cloud of steam from under the bonnet or is it just a case of it showing high on the gauge and the fan kicking in?

 

If it's the first you have a real problem.

 

I suspect that its the second and I can assure you this is quite normal.

 

You can buy a fan switch that will make it kick in at a different temperature if needed.

[blessed6383 0]

cheers rich and i appreciate your help

 

this is where im confused as rescued is saying the same thing that this is normal! i am aware there is 2 different temp switches that operate at different temps one at 92 and think other was slighty higher if i remember correctly

 

i am just getting the little light pop up on dash when in hot weather (not that we get alot in uk) and no steam from under the hood this would be a big issue i agree lol

[rescue dude 0]

The last time I went to buy a switch for my 91, 8 valve pug I was given a choice of 8 different temp. ranges to choose.

 

I've never had a warning light on the dash light up. Is there one just for water temp? Or is it the 'Stop' light?

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

It is not normal to have problems with a cooling system, otherwise it wouldn't be normal.

 

A warning light is telling you something, and the fact it's there tells you something is not right.

 

I'm not saying Rescuedude is talking rubbish, but something is not right if you or he think it's normal to have a warning light on.

 

For example why is an Mi16 engine any different from an 1.6 or 1.9 GTI engine. Almost identical blocks; similar capacities; same size and many of the parts are interchangeable. Why would one really run hotter than another?

 

Simple: installation is wrong or component has failed, e.g. water pump, expansion tank cap, thermostat (it needs to open), thermoswitch or radiator.

 

You are entitled to ignore my advice, and follow that of another forum member. But now you know me, why would I type something which wasn't designed to help you?

 

You should have no warning lights in traffic unless there's a problem as mentioned above. The fan should come on briefly unless it's a very hot day or you cane the s*it out of it all the time. Even then, the fan - if working properly - will do its bit and keep the engine somewhere between 92 and 98 degC.

 

The thermoswitches have different ranges only by a few degrees, to help particular engines made of different materials (i.e. iron or alloy and with larger coolant capacities) and/or larger radiators turn the fan on and off at different temps. But the goal is the same, to keep it operating in a certain band, typically under 100 degC.

 

Go simple and get it right first. It should behave just like a brand new car when plumbed in correctly.

Edited July 10, 2010 by DrSarty

[blessed6383 0]

its the little red light on the water gauge not the main stop light.

 

how do i know which temp one i want then as i must have wrong one? mines a 1900 mi16 D6C from a citroen bx

 

the guys at my local pug dealership are useless so should i go for the lowest temp switch?

[rescue dude 0]

I'm not saying Rescuedude is talking rubbish, but something is not right if you or he think it's normal to have a warning light on.

 

I've not said that its normal to have a warning light on at all.

 

My 205 runs quite hot, without any problem as I know if it gets too hot the fan will kick in and sort it.

 

I've never had any water temp warning light come on in my car(thankfully) If I did i'd know I had a problem and would sort it.

 

A warning light is your cars way of telling you that something needs sorting NOW, and that either something has failed or you've not been looking after your car properly.

[rescue dude 0]

its the little red light on the water gauge not the main stop light.

 

 

Isn't that the low water light?

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

Totally agreed.

 

But even 'high temps' are not normal, otherwise they wouldn't be high.

 

No problems is one thing, but temperatures should be nominal and if you don't have that, either something is reading wrong or installed wrong.

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

Isn't that the low water light?

 

No!

 

That's in the middle: a low coolant warning light.

 

The thermostat housing has a high water temp warning switch, which makes the light that Chris said light up, at the high end of the temp gauge.

[rescue dude 0]

Totally agreed.

 

But even 'high temps' are not normal, otherwise they wouldn't be high.

 

No problems is one thing, but temperatures should be nominal and if you don't have that, either something is reading wrong or installed wrong.

 

 

My car runs in cool weather a gnats under the 4th white bar. When it's hot and my driving is rather 'spiritedly' lol. It goes up very slightly above it.

 

In traffic my fan kicks in just before the 5th bar.

[blessed6383 0]

ok so is there differences in the thermostat housing temp switch and rad switches ie different operating temps? as i may have the wrong one's fitted

think this is the 1st thing i should look at as have plumbed it in correctly to diagrams i have found

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

If you want a twin speed cooling fan, then I would recommend this thermoswitch in the rad. Item no.4, part no. 1264 18.

 

I sent you a wiring diagram, so you should know it takes one permanent live feed from the shunt box, and then both outputs go to the fan positive wire, but one goes through the resistor. The latter is the low speed fan.

 

But you can't rely totally on the cooling fan to calm things down when things get hot, as you have to ask why it got hot in the first place. Was it due to incorrect plumbing/routing of the coolant hoses?

 

You need to get both right, with the right thermostat AND the right pressure cap (standard is fine) on the expansion tank.

[welshpug 1,627]

one thing to bear in mind when you go looking for a rad fan thermoswitch is the type of plug you have on it, later cars have a JPT type blue plug with the 3 pins in a row like - - -.

 

earlier cars have a different plug and of course a different arrangement of pins that looks a bit like |_|

 

just a note on Rescue Dude's temperatures, they don't sound high at all, perfectly normal, the 205/309's gauge is rather disconcerting as 90 degrees is pretty high up the gauge and most cars rarely get up that high.

 

 

[shaundean 0]

just a note on Rescue Dude's temperatures, they don't sound high at all, perfectly normal, the 205/309's gauge is rather disconcerting as 90 degrees is pretty high up the gauge and most cars rarely get up that high.

 

 

 

That's very interesting information. I've been concerned about my coolant temperatures for some time now especially with the hot weather. When cruising around my temperature will quickly rise to 90C according to your picture. If I boot it, get sat behind another car in traffic or have to stop to make a parking manoeuvre at work the temperature will rise from this point and the high speed fan will kick in. On a motorway run i the coolant temperature rose to 110C on the picture but no higher at any point ever.

 

I know that the radiator core is FUBAR'd and I actually have an 89C thermostat in the system as my 82C wasn't opening enough. I have to wait 2 weeks for Coolex to get stock back in and I am going on holiday next week so it's a job for after but your picture has soothed my fears a little about how hot it's been getting.

 

I am possibly one of the happier motorists in this rain, all my temps are where they should be.

[welshpug 1,627]

I really wouldn't drive it if the temps go that high, just get on the phone to GSF and order a Nissens alloy radiator.

 

Mine barely sees the fans come on, 83 degree stat and a nissens rad.

[shaundean 0]

I have ordered a new 82C thermostat from ECP but I'd rather wait for a coolex rad as i've heard good things about them.

 

the car hasn't gone above 100C at all in a week or so and i only have 5 days before i go on holiday, and as it's my daily driver i kind of need it to keep running. i am managing the temperature quite well by driving adjusting my driving style but even at 60 or 70mph its still sitting at 90C. it's only when i'm in traffic that it rises now and that's to be expected in the hot weather, just not as far as mine goes.

 

as i said i know the core is gone so my task for the extra day off i have after my return from turkey will be to get onto coolex and fit a new rad.

[welshpug 1,627]

never heard of coolex

 

edit, are they called advanced radiators now? if so they're very expensive! £30 more than GSF!!

Edited July 13, 2010 by welshpug

[rescue dude 0]

As I stated in my earlier post, my car sits just below 110 degrees even in the middle of winter.

 

I'm not worried about that in the slightest.