Emerald Upgrade For Mi16

[Veero 1]

Right I have had the Emerald sat in the cupboard for too long. It needs to go in the 205 so I am starting to get a plan of action together to fit it all.

 

The loom isn't a problem, I have reels of it left from rebuilding my Mi16 3 row loom, just need the plugs from VWP and to sit down and make it.

 

So far I have:

-306 GTi6 TPS

-306 GTi6 MAP sensor

-306 GTi6 ICAV (will this work or do I need the Mi/a different one?)

-306 GTi6 inlet temp sensor

-306 GTi6 TB and inlet manifold (already fitted)

 

I understand I will need a coil pack, but from what? Would I benefit from using GTi6 injectors (which I also have)? Can I use the existing crank sensor or do I need to fit an alternative means of sensing TDC/BDC?

 

What else do I need to get this thing running and does anyone have a vaguely standard map for an Mi16? The ECU I have was from a turbo'd motorbike engine running 350bhp so I guess it won't be anywhere near.

 

Whilst this is all going on I plan on fitting a few other bits:

-PeterT stage 1 inlet cam

-XU10 oil pump and trapdoor sump

-8v 1.9 crank and rods

-Machined Mi16 pistons to fit on the rods

 

I'm hoping for a mild increase in power from this little lot. Any advice on the above appreciated.

 

Cheers

Veero

[Anthony 1,000]

I understand I will need a coil pack, but from what? Would I benefit from using GTi6 injectors (which I also have)? Can I use the existing crank sensor or do I need to fit an alternative means of sensing TDC/BDC?

I normally just use a wasted-spark coilpack found on most XU/TU 8v engines made during the mid-90's (as well as in many other European cars), which coupled with Corsa 16v HT leads fit an Mi16 perfectly. Easy to wire up, with 12v ignition to one wire, and one wire to each of the two ignition drivers on the Emerald. Either make up a bracket to hold the coil, or adapt a late XU 8v thermostat housing.

 

Might as well use the GTi-6 injectors if you've got them as they've a nice spray pattern and plenty of flow for you proposed spec.

 

Your existing crank sensor is fine and Emerald will run off a Motronic 60-2 flywheel without issue.

 

What else do I need to get this thing running and does anyone have a vaguely standard map for an Mi16? The ECU I have was from a turbo'd motorbike engine running 350bhp so I guess it won't be anywhere near.

Drop Emerald an email and they'll supply you with a suitable base map FOC

[Tom Fenton 1,526]

There is no reason why all the sensors shouldn't work, crank sensor will also work fine. I don't know about the idle control valve, but a quick email to Emerald with the spec of it should soon get the answer you need.

 

As for the map, I wouldn't worry too much about it, if you are going to fit a wideband lambda you can soon get it running well enough to gently drive it for a map doing.

[Anthony 1,000]

I don't know about the idle control valve, but a quick email to Emerald with the spec of it should soon get the answer you need.

From what I remember, Emerald doesn't support 4-wire ICV's like GTi-6's have - if you have a read of Cameron's thread, there's some details in there somewhere about it. I think he ended up using one from a Rover K-Series engine in the end from memory.

[Simes 248 2 Cars]

have used a Mi16 ICAV works fine with the Emerald....mine is set up with one.

My coilpack is from a 106.

We've teased around another 15bhp out adding the GTI-6 inlet and Emerald, it's certainly made a difference.

Once you've got it up and running I'd be interested to compare notes.

Edited April 28, 2010 by Simes

[Veero 1]

Well that's answered pretty much everything, thanks as always guys!

 

Sure thing Simes, when I get it set up and running properly I'll give you a shout.

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

I'm not sure you'll need to run the MAP sensor Tris.

 

TPSe, ECT, IAT and CAS are sufficient. This is all mine uses, although it is on bodies.

 

But I'm interested to hear what benefits there are or could be - if any - of running a MAP sensor on a N/A engine which I guess needs to be running a standard, single TB inlet and plenum.

 

You may also wish to get at least one vernier pulley, mainly for PeteT's inlet cam. I know you can run it with an offset key that he provides, but if you're going the ECU route for adjustability via mapping, you may as well have mechanical cam timing adjustability too, although the exhaust cam doesn't need much tinkering.

 

But on that: having now held a pair of Kent vernier pulleys I can see a massive valve-train weight/inertia saving is to be had, although I'm not sure they're worth £100 each new, making this an expensive option.

 

What exhaust system incl manifold will you be running ?

 

Good luck mate; this is the right way to go.

[Veero 1]

What's an ECT?

 

I will have a word with Peter as we discussed. I do like the idea of extra adjustability with a vernier, also any weight saving can only have a positive effect on everything.

 

Going to be using the standard Mi exhaust manifold for now, mated to a Longlife stainless system with 2 straight through silencers.

 

I'm getting all excited about this now

[Anthony 1,000]

What's an ECT?

I assume he means ECU coolant temperature sensor, usually refered to on aftermarket ECU's as CLT.

 

The standard 2-pin blue sensor on the Mi is fine for the job

[Veero 1]

Ahh gotcha!

 

So how come it can run without a MAP sensor? Surely it needs someway to actually measure the air flow, even though it has a TPS, as TB flap angle doesn't equate exactly to air mass flow.

[Tom Fenton 1,526]

It is just down to the philosophy of the ECU, it uses throttle angle to determine load, as opposed to using MAP to determine load and the rate of change of TPS to determine acceleration enrichment etc.

 

Or another way to think about it, when the engine is mapped, at say 4000rpm, and for arguments sake at 1000mb atmo pressure, 50% throttle opening will let in "x" amount of air. This will always be the case as 4000rpm and 50% throttle opening. The bit that can change is atmo pressure, but from 1000mb to maybe 960mb or 1040mb, the amount of change is pretty slight, and you are unlikely to notice the difference from the engine running "slightly" rich or "slightly" lean as a result.

 

My Mi16 on throttle bodies and Emerald does not run a MAP sensor.

[Veero 1]

Ah fair enough.

 

I guess the variation in atmospheric pressure isn't enough to put things way out of kilter. If it's not that sensitive then I can just blank off the MAP sensor hole.

[welshpug 1,626]

would having a MAP sensor help get the fuelling and ignition even more honed to correct for barometric changes you get, i,e at altitude etc?

[Tom Fenton 1,526]

It would, but in the UK it is arguably not really needed.

[sideways danny 0]

only real advantage you would see by running MAP on a plenum would be to help with idle control if you have very wild cams.

 

on the whole, just keep it simple. Alpha N (TPS based load sensing) is enough for an NA engine

[Veero 1]

Mint, 3 less wires to think about.

[Veero 1]

Last question:

 

Do I need to go all out for an LC-1 lambda sensor and controller or can I use a sensor from a vehicle say in a breakers? I assume the latter would be a narrowband for emissions control?

[Anthony 1,000]

Depends what you want to achieve really - Emerald is capable of using either a wideband and narrowband, but clearly one is far less useful for tuning the AFR than the other.

 

You don't need to run a lambda at all though.

[Tom Fenton 1,526]

I would say from experience that it depends what you use the car for.

 

On a track car that sees full throttle and high revs most of the time, just have it mapped and leave it at that.

 

On a road car which can potentially spend hours at mid revs and light throttle opening, running a wideband lambda and the adaptive fuelling on the Emerald will allow it to fine tune the map in the cruise areas, potentially saving you £££ on fuel.

[Veero 1]

It will be used for both but mainly a road car. Thanks guys, useful to know.

 

Looks like 4 more wires to worry about then

[Simes 248 2 Cars]

It will be used for both but mainly a road car. Thanks guys, useful to know.

 

Looks like 4 more wires to worry about then

 

 

I'm not running a lambda.

I have though a 'power' map and an economical map.

The economical map has the fuel leaned off (a bit) between the equivilent of 50-90mph.

My cruising mpg hasn't really changed since binning the Motronic.