Calling All Paint People...

[d7ve_b 44 1 Cars]

Hi All,

 

My car has just come back from a local bodyshop after going in for the following:

 

- fit and paint N/S wing

- fit and paint N/S door

- sort rust on N/s sill and N/s rear arch

 

It's a 1990 miami blue and therefore the slightly lighter shade of blue. My problem is that the car has come back, and although the work seems of a good standard, i'm not sure the colour is right. I keep looking at it and wondering if it's the wrong shade of blue or if it's just the fact that the original paint has faded a bit and therefore looks slightly different. It's starting to wind me up as I paid good money for the job and don't want it looking poor.

 

Please could people with paint experience give me their opinions?

 

Newly painted wing:

 

http://www.david.barber.zen.co.uk/Miami/Pa...%20painted2.JPG

 

Close up:

 

http://www.david.barber.zen.co.uk/Miami/Pa...t%20painted.JPG

 

Offside (original) for comparison:

 

http://www.david.barber.zen.co.uk/Miami/Pa...-comparison.JPG

 

Wider N/S shot:

 

http://www.david.barber.zen.co.uk/Miami/Pa...e%20painted.JPG

 

N/S under bonnet:

 

http://www.david.barber.zen.co.uk/Miami/Pa...er%20bonnet.JPG

 

Closer shot (with my legs in it):

 

http://www.david.barber.zen.co.uk/Miami/Pa...r%20bonnet2.JPG

 

Thoughts and opinions before I go back and question the bodyshop?

[welshpug 1,691]

does look the darker shade, though always difficult yo match faded paint properly.

[toddydal 1]

they will need to paint the bonnet to get the match right,i would have painted the bonnet as well to get the match right

[d7ve_b 44 1 Cars]

they will need to paint the bonnet to get the match right,i would have painted the bonnet as well to get the match right

True, but this doesn't solve the problem as it then wouldn't match the O/S wing. I'd end up having to do the whole car.

 

I appreciate it says MOMY on the slam panel, but is this the paint code for the earlier shade of miami blue? From searching it seems like this is the later shade?

[Richie 32]

I used to have an early miami too, and i think they have possibly used the later miami paint. Its hard to tell though, it "could" be because the other area's are faded, but like i say i think its the later paint.

[MerlinGTI 3]

That looks out from the photo.

 

First thing I would do is polish one of the surrounding panel and see if that cures it. If it does you will be a busy boy doing the rest of car

if it still looks out take it back. They would of either used the wrong variant of the paint code, or it's in desperate need of blends.

 

There's no way the shop I work at would let that go out and it's not exactly the most fussy shop in the world.

[si_03 0]

the easiest way of sorting it is speak to the painter. my best mat does it for a living and the biggest problem is people asking everyone else there opinion and not going and saying to the person who has done the job there problem. a photo can give a false look and under fake light will make it look different. your best bet is take it back and talk to the person and ask what options you have as you are not happy with the match

[d7ve_b 44 1 Cars]

Thanks for the feedback and advice. I'm going to take it back next week and see what they can do, hopefully they're receptive to my concerns.

[si_03 0]

Thanks for the feedback and advice. I'm going to take it back next week and see what they can do, hopefully they're receptive to my concerns.

 

any decent bodyshop will do what they can to resolve the issue, as said it mite just be a poor mix, which they should be able to check but just check with them as they are the ones that need to resolve the issue

[toddydal 1]

did they blend into the rear 1/4 for colour so it matches the door if they did and that colours blendable they will be able to blend the bonnet and blend the A piller,its easier to blend the bonnet than go right down the side again.if you look at the front bumber it looks darker than the bonnet and when you paint the bonnet you wouldnt colour the whole bonnet you would just colour the edge so it matches the wing and then clearcoat the whole bonnet so the colour would match the otherside wing

Edited March 27, 2010 by toddydal

[d7ve_b 44 1 Cars]

They did blend the rear quarter as they had to due to them sorting the rear arch. It looks like they also blended the A pillar. I see what you mean about them being able to blend the bonnet but TBH I'd rather they got the colour right on the whole of the N/S.

[toddydal 1]

to be honest the bodyshop should not have let you take it looking like that,they should have found a better match,there might have been a lighter varient or they could have lightend the one they used just by adding a bit of silver,it doesnt matter if your car has faded they should have found abetter match.how much did you pay

[SurGie 54]

Absolutely so, if the paint is faded they should have polished it back then paint match the colour as it does look a darker colour looking at the engine bay area, which tends to fade less being away from the sun.

[d7ve_b 44 1 Cars]

Well, i've spoken to the bodyshop and the situation has deteriorated (sp?) into something for trading standards to look into.

 

I started very nicely by saying that I wasn't very happy with the colour match and is there any way that they could look at it to see if it could be improved, I spoke in a nice freindly tone as I was in good mood to start with (the Pug passed it's MOT this morning ) so I didn't expect to get a very negative response. After explaining my situation to the receptionist woman several times and only getting the response "this is the best that can be done with water based paints" she put me through (without me asking) to what I think was the owner.

 

I explained my situation to this person, who I can only politely describe as a very angry man, only to be greeted with the same response. I asked him if he thought it was acceptable that I should pay £800 for the fitting and spraying of a door and wing that would look a different colour to the rest of the car. His response was that he has been spraying cars for 30 years and that it couldn't be done better than the way he'd done it...apparently I was (and I quote) a 'nonce' for thinking any different. I kindly explained that if it had been explained to me at point of sale that it would not match when finished then I would not have proceeded with the work. His response to this was "what do you want me to do about it?". By this point I was getting quite annoyed and replied explaining that I wasn't the painter, and that he as the service provider should be providing me with solutions.

 

After another 5 minutes of arrogance I said that if he wasn't prepared to even look at the car (remember, we're still on the phone here) then I would take my case to trading standards, his response was "go and get trading standards and bring 'em down 'ere then you f*cking nonce". By now the conversation had degenerated into a slanging match so I not so kindly told him I would be in touch as this was getting nowhere and he responded with "do you know who we are?" to which I repeated "a bodyshop apparently" and hung up.

 

I've spoken to trading standards and they have told me to write to them stating my grievance and send it recorded mail. If I don't hear from them in two weeks then I should contact them and probably go through my credit card company (thankfully I paid via CC!) to recover the funds.

 

Oh, if you're interested the company I used for this are http://www.panelcare.co.uk/. I chose them because i'd hear positive things, however I wouldn't recommned them to anyone.

[omega 82]

i would contact your credit company now and make them aware of the situation

[jimistdt 1]

Sounds like you spoke to Jake Walsh and his mum Linda. Seems to be very active on a site called 'uk-mkivs'. Jake says

thank you means alot,

 

we dont get any upset customers, it seems to be a thing with this forum, both upset customers have been off here and duely kicked up a huge fuss for maximum damage,

 

at one point we were being surveyed for a bentley approved shop, but they wanted us to be soley bentelly, bit snobbey you see haha

 

my fave car we had in was a 550bhp rs4 est, you can keep the lambos, ferraris and porches all of which we have had in lol, you dont get alot for the money.

[samc 1]

do you know who we are?? haha the paint gangstas.

[toddydal 1]

i cant believe he is being a c*nt,all it would take is to pick a lighter shade or tint the shade they have aleady used,scotch the bonnet and side back off and redo,it wont take anymore than 2 and 1/2 hrs,your car was the right colour when it went in so it should come out the right colour,and thats a s*it excuse about thats the best we can do with waterbase load of bollox

[d7ve_b 44 1 Cars]

i would contact your credit company now and make them aware of the situation

Thanks for the advice . Trading Standards said the same so I've tried calling them tonight but they're shut now so i'll try them again tomorrow.

 

Sounds like you spoke to Jake Walsh and his mum Linda. Seems to be very active on a site called 'uk-mkivs'. Jake says

TBH uk-mkIVs was one of the sites where I saw the good reviews. As my other car is a VAG motor I frequent audi-sport.net and quite a few conversations pass between the forums, although I never actually post in uk-mkIVs and didn't contact Panelcare through there.

 

i cant believe he is being a c*nt,all it would take is to pick a lighter shade or tint the shade they have aleady used,scotch the bonnet and side back off and redo,it wont take anymore than 2 and 1/2 hrs,your car was the right colour when it went in so it should come out the right colour,and thats a s*it excuse about thats the best we can do with waterbase load of bollox

I was gobsmacked when he started with the attitude I could understand it if I'd started of moaning and sla**ing him off. Some people just really struggle to take any kind of criticism, even if it is constructive. I work in the service industry and if I spoke to a customer the way he spoke to me I would be fired before I had chance to put the phone down!

 

Anyway i've just finished the formal letter i'm sending via recorded delivery so we'll see what happens next. If you don't hear from me again it means the paintshop mafia have been over and 'bumped me off'.....

[d7ve_b 44 1 Cars]

Well it seems the letter got a reaction.

 

The owner (who turned out to be the guy I had an arguement with) rang me this morning. Although he is obviously pi$$ed that I have not just walked away after being shafted he (as politely as he could be) asked me to bring the car back to the bodyshop. They are intending to review the original paintwork (bonnet, roof, tailgate) to try and find a better match and if that doesn't work then they want to send the petrol cap (which has original paint on) to Germany to get it analysed and find the exact match. I'm not sure why it needs to go to Germany but he's the expert (apparently).

 

It was obvious from his tone that having to take this action caused him considerable pain (probably to his pride) so i'm cautious of the reception i'll get when I take the car in. Needles to say, i'm not going alone.

[SurGie 54]

They say they do 'faultless colour match' as well and from the looks of their site quite pro.

[MerlinGTI 3]

Print out one of those car inspection diagrams and get him to go round the car with you while you both mark any areas of damage no matter how slight and get him to sign it before any work is carried out.

 

You dont want any more hassle with these assholes.

[d7ve_b 44 1 Cars]

Print out one of those car inspection diagrams and get him to go round the car with you while you both mark any areas of damage no matter how slight and get him to sign it before any work is carried out.

 

You dont want any more hassle with these assholes.

That's a really good idea, cheers Merlin

[cuprajake 0]

hey guy's

 

im jake from panelcare,

 

i joined the forum just to reply to this, and what a kaffule that was, this thread has been left open ended by the op and we have since resolved the issue but to be fair that was also a kaffufle.

 

firstly i want to appologise fo my dads attitude, there is no need for it, and i dont like it when he speaks to me that way eiteher, hes a man with a very short fuse, and can be wound up easily.

 

right onto the car.

 

there are really no such thisng as a early and later version of miami blue, most companies have veriants out system, dupont water based has 9 different shade in total, we also have a very expensive spectometre which can scan the paint and choose for a colour libary of millions and even shade to get a better match.

 

i myself did not paint this car the other painter did, it was mached off the code via the camera and shaded for a best match. or so we thought. in some lights it looked worse than it was, i will also note camrea photos of cars often exaggerate colour difference very apparent on silver for instance.

 

anyway after all that went on, the car came down and we took 4 readings off the car, the boot the bonnet the roof and drivers door, needless to say they all picked different shades, now buff it back up you say- this doesnt work, maybe for the old solid red and whites, but on a clear coat it makes no oddsa as your not actually touching the colour.

 

we sent the petrol cap away to technical, who colour matched it to a current shade, and mixed up a batch and sent both back, once sprayed out the colour was still the same as what was on the car.

 

the trouble with waterbased product comes when trying to match older generation cars, while the colour libary is there it sometimes doesnt translate too well from solvent to water.

 

our last resort was for two dupont tech reps to call in, they spent the day looking at colours and mixing various batches, they settled upon a shade then further tinted that and came to the conclusion coupled with a drop coat that it was a very good match. the car was done and the customer went away happy.

 

hope this resolves any issuse we have had

 

thanks for reading

 

regards jake

[toddydal 1]

yeh i know whats its like we have sikkens in our shop as our main sceme and some colour matchs are utter s*it and we hav a lesser sceme in called trade which is really max myer and the colours are much better matchs,the thing with the sikkens is it changes to much at different angles,one of the best scemes ive used for colour matchs was shirwin willams that was reaaly good but the clearcoat was s*ite