Modifying A Xsara Rack To Fit A 205

[kyepan 291]

Seeing as this seems to be a bit of a secret operation at the moment, thought it might be good to shed some light on it.

 

I have just procured a VTS rack and will be fitting it along with electric pas in the not too distant future.

 

Now if you're here thinking i have the answers, i don't yet, but from the chat i had with Ant last night it should not be too hard, we just need a couple of bits of information.

 

Two things need altering.

 

1) removal of track rod ends and fitting of 205 ends, this seems fairly straight forward, apart from the boots covering them.

 

2) modification of the steering column above the universal joint.

 

a) The shaft length above the uj differs from the 205, the xsara shaft is longer.

the shaft has a flat section ground into it to help locate it and secure it into the upper column, this needs elongating by a similar ammount.

 

so one would need to cut down the xsara upper uj section, and grind / file away a portion to match the upper sections length.

 

So what we need are, measurements of the xsara upper column (and lower column) and the same for a 205 column. I'll put up some picutures and where we should measure from and too tonight, then hopefully we can have this information in the public domain.

 

will post up a bit more later.

 

J

[j_turnell 134 3 Cars]

Good idea! Also very interested in this as i plan to do this myself at a later date

[Galifrey 1]

Good idea mate.

 

Miles did not shorten my lower column, which pushed the steering wheel about 10mm closer to me. This had the unfortunate effect of losing my self cancelling indicators which I fixed by relocating the indicator stalk 10mm closer to the steering wheel.

 

To do this I used 1 exisiting hole and had to drill 1 new one in the metal plate the stalk attaches to.

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

Good thread Justin. Here's what Jackherer sent to me via e-mail when I asked:

 

The first thing that needs doing is to swap the track rods for 205/309

ones as the Xsara ones are way too long.

 

Then the only other thing is the lower column, its about 30-40mm

longer than the 205 one so when you come to fit the upper column the

steering wheel is too close to the driver and the mounting studs don't

line up.

 

If you want to keep the wheel in the standard position you will need

to cut the xsara column down to the length of the 205 one and then

grind/machine a new flat onto it.

 

I (also) had to trim the rubber bulkhead

grommet thing the column goes through as the Xsara one is a fraction

thicker.

 

Its all very simple, I managed to work it out

 

When I'm home finishing Evo II off (in about 4 weeks) I'll speak with Colin and clarify exactly what he did to add to this.

[j_turnell 134 3 Cars]

Ah that sounds straight forward enough, cheers Rich

[Rob Thomson 6]

I've got a Xsara rack sitting in the garage waiting to be fitted.

 

The section of the lower column that needs to be modified is, I think, a tube rather than a solid rod. So when shortening and/or modifying this part you'll need to be careful not to weaken it.

[Baz 421]

Yes, the section that needs trimming to put the squared section in, i'd be tempted to weld a flat plate back into into it to keep some strength.

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

A few things I noted

 

You'll find the the U/J sits allot closer the nearer the Bulkhead grommet

The lower U/J/rod slides thru the std 205 coloum without any problems, You just need a new flat for the bolt to secure in posistion, Really the splines need to be longer or you can cut and weld it but I don;t like doing this on items like this.

 

Also I will say to confirm as some people think about the Track Rod's is that it's the control Arm's and not the Track Rod end's which need swaping over

[Baz 421]

Also I will say to confirm as some people think about the Track Rod's is that it's the control Arm's and not the Track Rod end's which need swaping over

 

That's what i was thinking, surely it's the whole arms rather than just the ends, cheers for the confirmation Miles.

[Galifrey 1]

That's what i was thinking, surely it's the whole arms rather than just the ends, cheers for the confirmation Miles.

 

A pic speaks a thousand words

 

 

[welshpug 1,623]

the ends are identical to 205/309 items

[pugdamo 111 2 Cars]

Sorry if this is a stupid question but what are the advantages of using this rack?

[Baz 421]

About a turn and a half less steering lock.

[pugdamo 111 2 Cars]

About a turn and a half less steering lock.

 

Ahhh,thanks for that

[Cameron 16]

Why go through all the hassle of swapping the track rods? I just cut mine down by about 15mm.

There's about 100mm of thread inside them, so it makes absolutely no difference strength-wise!

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

For the cost of the new one's and knowing you will never have to touch them again why not replace them, Maybe abit OTT but I like to do things once only

[Cameron 16]

Ah well if you're fitting new ones then that makes sense, would be easier to cut them down than swap to old 205 ones though.

[kyepan 291]

measurements of the rack are as follows.. (mods i've used a slightly larger dimension photo for this one, it's still only a hundred kb ish)

 

spline length 50mm

Flat section extends to 27mm

shaft widens at 55mm

 

 

this is the link for the smaller photo

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4056/424616..._5a8af2df91.jpg

 

Length of the shaft to the top of the flange on the lower section 360mm

 

Total shaft length from tip down to the centre of the pinion housing 463mm.

 

If someone could make similar measurements and ideally photos on a 205 rack, we can compare lengths.

 

It will be interesting to find out if the lower shaft is indeed a different length as has been previously mentioned.

 

who's up for measuring and taking photos?

 

cheers

 

 

J

[Paul_13 212 1 Cars]

I've got some 309 track control arms (the bit with the UJ), your welcome to them if you want them

[kyepan 291]

thanks paul, that would be grand.

 

The bits in the photo's are the lower section of the steering column.

 

cheers

 

J

[jimistdt 1]

Good topic Justin, and likewise contributions everybody, unravelling the mysteries for the masses.

[Galifrey 1]

thanks paul, that would be grand.

 

The bits in the photo's are the lower section of the steering column.

 

cheers

 

J

 

Is the lower column not telescopic?

 

If so, might be able to tap it in an inch?

[jackherer 543]

Why go through all the hassle of swapping the track rods? I just cut mine down by about 15mm.

There's about 100mm of thread inside them, so it makes absolutely no difference strength-wise!

 

As has been said so you can fit new ones, the quicker steering amplifies any play so I fitted new track rods and track rod ends so all the ball joints were tight.

 

Also in my case the rack had been removed by a scrapyard with a grinder so I had no choice

 

On the subject of play, these Xsara lower columns have a rubber bush like Renault Clios and unlike 205s. The Renault ones are notorious for disintegrating leading to sloppy steering, its common to crush them in vices as a temporary fix. I hope these Xsara ones don't fail in the same way in the long term. In the past I bought a non-OE 205 pas column from Eurocarparts that did have a rubber bush which I welded up before fitting, I haven't done that to the Xsara one yet but I can see it becoming necessary sooner or later.

[Cameron 16]

Well it's all interesting stuff! I have a Xsara column that I'm waiting to fit, would be very nice if you could put up a bit of a guide to removing the track rods, I've never successfully removed one!

[Batfink 201]

looks like we will be destroying more citroens lol