Best Track Set Up

[evo rich 0]

right im after the best track set up for my 205 mi16 wich i have not long owened. it is running wide track front end but not rear yet. i have a set of bilstine blacks at the front and standerd rear shocks i have just got a set of adjustable top mounts wich im in the process of fitting. i just wont some epinions of wot set ups you have run thanks rich

[andyjstone 5]

right im after the best track set up for my 205 mi16 wich i have not long owened. it is running wide track front end but not rear yet. i have a set of bilstine blacks at the front and standerd rear shocks i have just got a set of adjustable top mounts wich im in the process of fitting. i just wont some epinions of wot set ups you have run thanks rich

 

Try the search there are loads of topics on this, I think this was the most recent: http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.php?showtopic=113250

[Baz 421]

Another good one here.

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

no such thing, Everyone likes something different, I'd get out and try a few different ones first

[Batfink 201]

right im after the best track set up for my 205 mi16 wich i have not long owened. it is running wide track front end but not rear yet. i have a set of bilstine blacks at the front and standerd rear shocks i have just got a set of adjustable top mounts wich im in the process of fitting. i just wont some epinions of wot set ups you have run thanks rich

 

well you will need to run better dampers for a start. Is your car a dedicated trackcar or used for the road too? How stiff are you prepared to live with?

[Cameron 16]

Best is a bit of an overused word for some reason.. There is no best set-up otherwise everyone would be running it. What someone tells you is the best set-up could be awful in your eyes, and vice-versa. A decent starting point is some Gaz gold coilovers, 300lb springs, 24mm rear bars, Yokohama A048 tyres (worth forking out for) and some mintex 1155 pads. That should get you going.

[Baz 421]

Best is a bit of an overused word for some reason.. There is no best set-up otherwise everyone would be running it. What someone tells you is the best set-up could be awful in your eyes, and vice-versa. A decent starting point is some Gaz gold coilovers, 300lb springs, 24mm rear bars, Yokohama A048 tyres (worth forking out for) and some mintex 1155 pads. That should get you going.

 

'Starting' point? I'd say that's a bit advanced, missing a few levels!! No uprated ARB's though?!

 

 

Suspension-wise alone, i'd say a decent starting point is a decent standard setup, renewed bushes, mountings & dampers etc.

 

Next up would be some mildly uprated over standard Gti6/Xsara VTS/Bilstein Streetline dampers and perhaps bigger ARB's etc.

 

Then moving on to even better, designed for the job perhaps adjustable dampers, Koni sports, Bilstein Sprintline etc, and some bigger TB's etc

 

 

Then even further into the realms of coilovers etc, matching spring rates front and rear then becomes a bit more in depth!

[Cameron 16]

And that's exactly my point!

 

On person's track car (Baz in this instance) isn't far removed from a road car, just tightened up a little.. whereas another person's (mine) would be more focused and holds no regard for road comfort. Hell a track car is a car built specifically for the track at the end of the day, if you want a car that you can happily pootle around on the road in then you need to ask your question a bit clearer. What are you after, a road car, a fast road car, a track day car, a track only car, or a race car?

 

Ps don't get me started on ARB's!

Edited December 29, 2009 by Cameron

[Baz 421]

And that's exactly my point!

 

On person's track car (Baz in this instance) isn't far removed from a road car, just tightened up a little..

 

How did you work that out then?

 

My 'Track Car(s)' (lolz) hardly has standard suspension does it!! Christ even my predominantly used as a road car 205 has pretty decent suspension setup that's fairly hard and verging on being almost too uncomfortable for the road. See the thread i linked.

 

But, although some would beg to differ, you don't need mega dampers and 9000lb springs to have a good handling 'track car'

 

Some compliance is actually a good thing.

[Cameron 16]

I meant the example you gave, not your actual car, fooool!

[Baz 421]

Ahh, didn't read like it, and i gave examples, but got bored so didn't keep going...

[evo rich 0]

right i have opened a can of worms with this by the look of it lol. i no wot your all say people like difrent setups. i just wonted a ruff gide so i wasnt wasting my money on stuff that dont really need changing were it can be spent some were els.

my car is just a track day car but i would like to drive to the track as well but im not botherd about ruff ride.

my set up so fare is 309 arms polly bushed and 309 arb bilstine blacks with comp brake adjustable top mounts and 40mm springs. top strut brace. 266 brake set up they are lighter then gti6. with braded hoses

 

right wot i wont to change

shocks a good set of bilstein shocks/or a set of good coilovers. but i have heard difrent things about the 2 and if i go for 306 set up at front will be better for the extra wight of the mi16

309 rear beam if any 1 has got 1 let me no

tyers 888rs

omp disks and pads can get them for £120 for the front. had these on other cars and i thort the were good for the money

if that makes any sence to you all thanks rich

Edited December 30, 2009 by evo rich

[AdamP 0]

Once you get into track set up things get very complicated. A set up that works perfectly on one track can make the car undriveable on another.

 

IMO its better to stay slightly on the soft side at the expense of overall performance than make it really stiff and find you dont enjoy a track day because its too skittish.

[andyjstone 5]

Maybe you need to learn to write first - don't mean to be nasty and I know that this has been covered before, but it does make posts very hard work to read when the spelling, grammar and punctuation is so bad.

 

Bah Humbug

[Cameron 16]

Jesus H. Christ, sort your spelling out! Was major effort reading that lot!

 

Personally, I don't think a 309 rear beam is worth it. They're so overpriced because everyone wants them, and the benefits you get from the 10mm(?) wider track are outweighed by the horrific arch rubbing - unless you get uprated bars for it too. Standard rear track width is fine really.

[Baz 421]

Personally, I don't think a 309 rear beam is worth it. They're so overpriced because everyone wants them, and the benefits you get from the 10mm(?) wider track are outweighed by the horrific arch rubbing - unless you get uprated bars for it too. Standard rear track width is fine really.

 

More than 10mm, at least double that, and the point isn't the width, it's the bigger bars that help too. And arch rubbing is non existant unless you run at chavtastic ride-heights tbh. To some degree i agree with you, but ultimately it depends what you're doing with the car, for high speed smooth surfaces and flowing corners, like alot of tracks, it makes alot of sense in the added stability, also depends on your driving style and preferences.

[j_turnell 134 3 Cars]

Have to disagree on the 309 beam front, imo its one of the best suspension upgrades, you do get the 20mm torsion bars and ARB which are the main benefits, as well as the wider track, giving improved stability and turn in. Personally never had any rubbing issues either, so unless you have rubbish shocks and/or its sat on its arse, its not really a problem!

 

All you need is a 309 tube, the rest can be sourced else where cheaply, so theres no need to spend hundreds on a standard 309 axle as some seem too. 24/22mm arb from a 306, torsion bars from a belingo/partner and arms from a zx/xsara/306 and you've got a great upgrade.

 

Also, from an asthetic point of view the 309 beam looks much more purposeful imo and suits the 205 much better, especially compared to a 1.6, which doesnt fill the arches atall.

 

 

vs

 

 

old pics but you get the idea!

[welshpug 1,627]

I think its about 36mm overall extra rear track.

 

Best bet is to get your car working as it should be as standard, then see what you do or don't like about the way it behaves, then look into what you can do to change or improve that.

[Cameron 16]

More than 10mm, at least double that, and the point isn't the width, it's the bigger bars that help too. And arch rubbing is non existant unless you run at chavtastic ride-heights tbh. To some degree i agree with you, but ultimately it depends what you're doing with the car, for high speed smooth surfaces and flowing corners, like alot of tracks, it makes alot of sense in the added stability, also depends on your driving style and preferences.

 

Hhhactually, what you're doing by increasing the rear track width is increasing the weight transfer to the rear outside tyre and therefore increasing oversteer; something the 205 won't really benefit from. That's the same reason I'm against fitting huge rear anti-roll bars, what you're doing is increasing roll stiffness, not reducing weight transfer.

[Baz 421]

In theory you're right of course, but in practical terms it doesn't work like that, you're over-thinking it!

 

I guarantee a 309 beam will oversteer less than a 205 beam!

 

I'm amazed you say all this so confidently, especially considering you haven't actually driven a 205 with a 309 beam fitted! No offence meant at all Cam, and i'm pretty sure i'm right in saying that as i know you hadn't a while back.

 

 

And on the subject of increasing roll stiffness, i know where you're coming from, but by doing so at the rear you're making the front softer(comparibly) thus giving it the grip at the front and not the back in turn. You could of course do this by removing the front ARB, or fitting a smaller one in theory, but again in practise it's just not that straight forward! (depending factors of course) It's all been discussed before, and to ultimately and efficiently achieve what you want, it's easier to fit a larger rear ARB.

 

I think you're looking at this way too hard from a theory/physics POV, which is all well and good, but when put into practise it just doen't work like that. To make a 205 ultimately better from the angle you're looking at it, you need to start again so to speak, when in reality, you can of course only work with what you've already got, and try and get the best from that!

 

 

Just to add; I'm firmly on the fence really tbh, after all i have both beams fitted to my cars as i believe they're differently suited etc, so i don't wish to stir anything up here at all.

Edited December 30, 2009 by Baz

[Cameron 16]

Well, it does work like that though, that's the thing, as at the end of the day it's physics that keeps you on the tarmac.

I'd love to try out fitting 15mm spacers to the rear of my 205 and see what difference it makes, but at the moment I'm pretty sure it won't be a positive effect. Although I'm sure the thicker bars of the 309 beam will more than make up for the the shortfalls caused by increasing track width, I'd bet that a standard width beam with the same set-up would offer slightly more rear end grip.

 

I don't know, it's a personal preference thing again really isn't it. I'm basing all of this on my idea of perfect handling being neutral steer, if oversteer is your thing then fitting the 309 beam will make for a better handling car, you just (theoretically ) won't be quite as fast round a track.

Edited December 30, 2009 by Cameron

[oli-pug 6 2 Cars]

Just my two pence here, but i think you're getting this back to front Cam.

 

As a result of increasing rear track, the weight transfer at the rear axle is essentially being decreased. The cars centre of gravity is lower towards the rear due to this wider spaced footprint thus increasing rear end grip and promoting more understeer.

 

That's how I understand the theory anyway

[Dazza 4]

Dont know and dont want to get involved ....mine's just fine with the 205 item .

 

So your driving this car to the track with a mate in the passenger seat..( best not brake it then )

 

I think Rich your trying to say " this is what i have atm.... and whats your experiences on improving this further for a more focused track car " .

 

In my experience we have tried yellow Bilstien's Mac's and Koni Sports with good quality springs and these are great ime , we now use Reiger coil-overs that cost us an awful lot more than the bilies and yes its night and day difference.

 

I think there's obviously time to look at a budget , not that this matters at all imo .

 

What does matter is you getting on the track and improving your skill set out there with what you have presently , i would not get to drawn in with you think or get told you need .

 

If you dont believe me get in with someone who can drive ....." there in another league"

 

My pennies worth

Having the option for finely tuned adjustability is one such area you should tend to look at for both geometry and suspension behaiviour , those 888's will be fine for you , for now.

Edited December 30, 2009 by Dazza

[Anthony 1,000]

I don't know, it's a personal preference thing again really isn't it. I'm basing all of this on my idea of perfect handling being neutral steer, if oversteer is your thing then fitting the 309 beam will make for a better handling car, you just (theoretically ) won't be quite as fast round a track.

Can I make a suggestion Cam? Speak from experience, not from what you think should happen "in theory" and certainly not implying that "theory" is fact

 

I've had a 309 beam on my car for years now, have built, fitted, and driven all manner of different beam specs, and I can confidently say that you're talking complete bo***cks frankly...

[andyjstone 5]

Well, it does work like that though, that's the thing, as at the end of the day it's physics that keeps you on the tarmac.

 

Yes, but there's a lot more to the physics than just weight transfer and it's almost impossible to work out what all the different combinations of track, springs, dampers, bars, etc., will have on the handling of the car going the physics route, the only way is to see how it drives, hence why all the car manufacturers employ test drivers and tracks to set up the suspension.