Megasquirt

[Nitropixie 0]

Hey guys

 

I'm helping to do a megasquirt 2 with EDIS conversion for a friend. He has a 1.9gti on a K plate, with Brooklands Green interior if that means anything to anyone.

 

The plan is to keep it as original as possible but making sure we can get good reliability and best out of engine in replace of the old jetronic unit. We are sticking to the stock manifold, so no itb's. The aim at the moment is to keep it looking as stock as possible.

 

So far i have added TPS in replace of throttle switch, have added a lambda sensor boss using a 34p bolt (works a treat, 18mm fine thread), split all the wiring in preperation to wiring slightly differently, mounted EDIS module where the original ignition modle used to be and located the tachyometric relay which will be powering the lambda heater, made a dizzy blanking plate which now mounts the coil pack so looks like original dizzy at first glance.

 

Parts we are using are a rover TPS on a home made conversion plate. We went to the scrapyard and salvaged a 106 coil pack with leads. I think the leads ends will cut down and fit straight on in replace of originals also got the idle valve off it too.

 

What i would like to know is either:-

 

1)

Would it be best to use the original 60-2 already found on the flywheel (if i'm correct). I have located the plug for the hall sensor on there. Obviously i can't use EDIS with this.

 

Or

 

Should i mount a 36-1 triggerwheel on the pulley wheel and use the EDIS unit. If so what is the best way to find TDC, are there any timings marks anywhere i can use as i have not found any. Have had a look at the haynes to no avail.

 

 

2)

What sort of idle valve does the 106 have i know it has 3 pins but not figured out what type it is. We were planning on moving away from the SAD device and use something a bit more modern and easily found. Can megasquirt use the 106 one????

 

Any help would be great

 

Ryan

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

As you've said you're using MS2, providing you're using the later version (MSIIv3 IIRC) then you can run off the Bosch crank angle sensor on the std 60-2 fly wheel outer ring teeth. It's not a Hall sensor I believe, it's a VR (variable reluctance) sensor.

 

Doing this means you don't need EDIS.

 

MSIIv3 comes with an ignition driver (VB921 IIRC) which means you can drive a normal coil. EDIT: As Leskro has said below, you need an additional driver to run wasted spark.

 

MSIIv3 will support either an F-Idle (fast idle) valve which has a single output from the ECU or an IACV (idle air control valve - or stepper motor like on the GTI6). The IACV requires 4 wires.

 

DIYAutotune do an excellent pre-printed loom, with or without the DB37 ECU connector for a very good price BTW.

 

I don't know what ICV the 106 uses, but it's bound to be one of the above so you will be able to get it to work. Be aware though that setting up the stepper motor kind on MS can be a pig!

 

Rich

Edited October 18, 2009 by DrSarty

[[L'e$kro] 2]

1)

Would it be best to use the original 60-2 already found on the flywheel (if i'm correct). I have located the plug for the hall sensor on there. Obviously i can't use EDIS with this.

I think you should stick to Peugeot parts for your MS conversion:

A thermostat housing from the Xu10 8 valve turbo engine will blank the distributor hole off, them you can use the coil-pack as well (same as 106 ones?) directly driven by the Megasquirt (you'll need an extra ignition driver inside your megasquirt to run wasted spark)

 

 

 

You'll also need a 60-2 flywheel and clutch from a mi16 instead of the 8v one which doesn't have teeth apart the ones for the starter

 

For the Idle control a 4 wire stepper motor is probably the best you could find, but can't confirm this as I was using throttle bodies

 

Hope this helps,

 

Nicolas

 

 

EDIT: Dr Sarty was faster than me on this reply...

The Bosch crank sensor is a VR sensor, not an optical one.

The megasquirt v3.0+ boards are not necessarily including a second ignition driver (known as vb921, now replaced by Bip something). You need to specify that you need an extra 1 when ordering the MS

Edited October 19, 2009 by pugtorque

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

You'll also need a 60-2 flywheel and clutch from a mi16 instead of the 8v one which doesn't have teeth apart the ones for the starter

 

I noted your edit Nicolas, but the above's thrown me totally. 1.6 and 1.9 8v engines run a crank sensor (VR) in the gearbox housing, so it must be reading something, i.e. the teeth on the flywheel.

 

Flywheel detail here

 

I could be making an arse of myself here, but the flywheel must have teeth otherwise the sensor wouldn't be there and the ECU wouldn't know what the engine was doing.....

Edited October 18, 2009 by DrSarty

[sub205 5]

I noted your edit Nicolas, but the above's thrown me totally. 1.6 and 1.9 8v engines run a crank sensor (VR) in the gearbox housing, so it must be reading something, i.e. the teeth on the flywheel.

 

Flywheel detail here

 

I could be making an arse of myself here, but the flywheel must have teeth otherwise the sensor wouldn't be there and the ECU wouldn't know what the engine was doing.....

 

the sensor on the jetronic-systems is just for setting the idle advance correctly, there is a special tool to do this, like a stroboscope but without light

 

you have to change the flywheel to a motronic one (xu9, xu10 will all work fine, xu9j4 (mi16) and xu10 has a bigger clutch.)

and add the sensor which is directly on top of the gearbox, not the one at the backside.

 

and i too think the original parts are best, especially the wasted spark coil and the part on the cylinderhead to hold it.

you can use edis as the driver for sure, or you can use a dual ignition module, there are several ones from bosch that can be used. alternatively you can use 2 separate ignition modules from jetronic/motronic engines, they'll do fine.

[Nitropixie 0]

Cheers for your replies guys.

 

I was also under the impression that the flywheel already has some timing markings for the VR sensor to pick up that is already located on the gearbox and thought they were 60-2 also. I thought it was hall because it has 3 pins going to it, VR normally have just 2 wires.

 

If the above is true i will ditch the EDIS and run an extra driver for the coil pack. That clears that up. Luckily i haven't done any mods to the loom as yet just marked it up. I'm getting a new MS2 kit from the states so is a V3.0 and will sort an extra driver out myself.

 

I will have to keep an eye out for an 8v turbo block but for the time being i will using a blanking plate. What ignition leads is used with this coil pack and engine?? as in off what model and age so i can go into a shop and pick some up?? Not completely clued up on Peugeots i'm afraid.

 

I'll have another look at the idle valve i have obtained. It is a Bosch unit with an air in and air out similar to the SAD but has 3 pins to it.

 

Dr Sarty are you in the MOB? I'm RN

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

I was in the 'MOB' - 12 years, just left, but somehow ended up back in this s*ite hole.

 

As for the VR sensor, it does 'kind of' have 3 wires. There are 2 you need that go to the ECU/MSII - tach signal and an ECU sensor gnd like the ECU coolant temp or inlet air temp sensor gnds do e.g. pins # 17-19).

 

Those 2 of the 3 wires carry the actual signal pulses the MS sees from the VRS.

 

The 3rd wire is just a shield and is a terminated end inside the plastic of the VRS plug; it's attached to nothing at that plug end at all.

 

At the other ECU end, that coax shield (which is wrapped round the positive tach signal wire - the one that goes to the MS tach signal pin #24) just goes to ECU grounding pin, pin #2.

 

Corsa HT leads are often used.

 

HTH

[Nitropixie 0]

Sorry after re-reading all the replies i have figured i don't have the correct flywheel for a 60-2 setup. I wont be spliting the engine and gearbox just yet so will run the EDIS for the time being and stick with my original plan but use the Peugeot coil pack. I won't exactly be losing anything by doing it this way and ignition setup wil be slightly easier software wise.

 

What physical timing marks are there on the engine i can use???

[Tom Fenton 1,526]

Corsa leads are used on 16v cars. They are no use to you on an 8v car. The leads you want are from a Citroen ZX Volcane 1905cc from about 1992. These are a direct fit to the coil pack and the head. Leads from a 406 2.0 turbo will also work, but don't have the original type boot on the spark plug end.

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

Yes: : my bad about the Corsa leads; I only think in 16v terms sorry.

 

As for the fly-wheel thing, I completely missed the Jetronic thing in the opening post, and was wondering how Sub was being so confident you didn't have a usable fly-wheel. Had you had a Motronic you'd have been laughing. I hear there were both systems that year (K).

 

RTFQ springs to mind.

[Nitropixie 0]

LOL no worries.

A quick point I just remembered. The original throttle body, that we will be still using, has the idle screw. Should i set this for ideal revs or fully screw it in and let an idle valve control the idle all the time. I was going to use an idle valve which can control the idle, not just an open or closed one for fast idle.

 

Any ideas out there???

[Nitropixie 0]

Hope i haven't upset anyone on here???

 

How have people wired up the ms2 and ignition modules?? Do they need to be grounded and fed from the same points in the loom?

 

As i am using EDIS i have used the original ignition module power leads to power the coil pack and EDIS unit. I think it recieves 12v straight from pos 2 of the ignition switch and grounds some where behind the dash??

 

I will be using the original ecu's power lead to power the MS2 ecu, which i think is controlled from the Tachyometric relay and grounds on the gearbox where the battery ground attaches.

 

Also i am controlling the tachyometric relay and tacho with a signal from the IDM (pin2) of EDIS but have just found out that it has a constant 100 rpm out whilst ignition is turned on without the engine running. I think i can still use the IDM output for the tacho but should i use an ms2 output for the tachyometric relay instead, as otherwise the fuel pump will run with just the ignition on.

 

Any ideas would be great

 

Ryan

[Nitropixie 0]

Hey again guys

 

Need some more help if anyone has any answers out there for me please. I have been scouring through the previous topics but can't seem to find exactly what i need. Sad thing is i have seen it just can't re-find it again, lol.

 

1) I'm using an Mi16 (believe the same as gti6) 4 pin stepper idle valve. What settings do people have theirs set at?? and how much do they have it open at whatever temps?? Just to make it easier

 

2) I'm using the 205 OE coolant sensor. Does anyone have the calibration settings for the sensor to work with ms2

 

To answer my own questions for the post above I have used the original ignition module power supply leads to power and ground the EDIS. 12v comes straight from the ignition key loom.

 

I am getting rid of the tachyometric relay and replacing with a standard twin output relay controlled by meagsquirt (very little alteration on the loom with this and quite easy to do using the original techyometric relay connector). I think the tachyometric relay maybe be defunct as i got no priming when ignition key is switched on and ecu doesn't power up.

 

I ran the lambda sensor power lead in parallel with the fuel pump on one of the relay outputs and injectors are powered by the other ouput.

 

The megasquirt is now directly powered from the ign pos 2 straight off the ignition key loom with fuse. in line. The unit doesn't drain very much current so no problem really.

 

Thanks in advance

[Nitropixie 0]

oops not an mi16 idle valve at all, it is a GTi-6 one if anyone has there ms2 settings for it please.