Jetronic To Motronic Upgrade

[sparky 0]

Hello Chaps.

 

Its about time I (re)started my 205 project now I've got a bit of cash together.

 

High on the list of things that need doing is replacing the stone age Jetronic system with something a little more reliable and economical. Having read various threads on the subject, the MP3.1 system looks like best option as I don't want to shell out for a programmable ECU at this stage.

 

The problem is I can't find the main bits i.e. ECU, Loom and XU7 flywheel. Having scoured the for sale section here and ebay for a few weeks now and drawn a blank, Im hoping someone on here knows where I can find these parts.

 

 

Thanks alot

 

 

Chris

[Tom Fenton 1,526]

If you don't mind going up a size on the clutch you could use the Mi16/GTI6 type flywheel, these are really quite easy to get hold of.

[Tesstuff 222]

Hello Chaps.

 

Its about time I (re)started my 205 project now I've got a bit of cash together.

 

High on the list of things that need doing is replacing the stone age Jetronic system with something a little more reliable and economical. Having read various threads on the subject, the MP3.1 system looks like best option as I don't want to shell out for a programmable ECU at this stage.

 

The problem is I can't find the main bits i.e. ECU, Loom and XU7 flywheel. Having scoured the for sale section here and ebay for a few weeks now and drawn a blank, Im hoping someone on here knows where I can find these parts.

 

 

Thanks alot

 

 

Chris

 

Good luck mate, the mp3.1 is rarer than a 20 yr old rear beam in perfect condition.

[sparky 0]

Good luck mate, the mp3.1 is rarer than a 20 yr old rear beam in perfect condition.

 

Bugger. I had a good idea this wouldn't be a simple thing (what is on a 205).

 

Ok seeing as the chances of getting hold of MP3.1 kit are looking slim, what other options do I have?

[Tesstuff 222]

Bugger. I had a good idea this wouldn't be a simple thing (what is on a 205).

 

Ok seeing as the chances of getting hold of MP3.1 kit are looking slim, what other options do I have?

 

 

I had the same idea as you and the stumbling block was the ecu and loom. I finally located one , in Croatia , but there were more obstacles their end with all sorts so i gave up.

 

You could bribe Welshpug for his

[Anthony 1,000]

Depends - ZX Volcane 1.9 sourced MP3.1 is fairly rare, although not impossibly so - I alone have had about three setups in the past!

 

General MP3.1 isn't hard to get hold of at all, but the map won't be right on it for the engine - not an issue if you're getting someone like Wayne at Chipwizards to remap it for you, but less ideal if you want a plug and play replacement.

[shalmaneser 26]

Just out of interest what engines ran 3.1?

 

obviously the Volcane, but presumably the system was used in other cars too. I was vaguely wondering about doing the swap.

[welshpug 1,626]

quite a few engines ran it, as mentioned the most suitable would be from a 1.9 XU ZX as its the closest form of that engine outside of the 205/309, the 405 and BX used them on similar versions.

 

there are different versions too, some in the 106 had a lambda sensor as well, though I would imagine even if used on a 1.6 gti would need some maping alterations.

[steve@cornwall 100]

quite a few engines ran it, as mentioned the most suitable would be from a 1.9 XU ZX as its the closest form of that engine outside of the 205/309, the 405 and BX used them on similar versions.

 

there are different versions too, some in the 106 had a lambda sensor as well, though I would imagine even if used on a 1.6 gti would need some maping alterations.

 

 

there's a late model 405 1.6 in a local yard with 40K on the clock and 3.1 ign. complete. http://macs.bpweb.net/

[sparky 0]

Fiddlesticks!

 

This is getting more complicated by the second.

 

I thought the motronic system was self learning, not the first time i've been wrong though. I know very little about ECU software and what it can and can't do.

I should expand on my first post really. Im after a system I can put in without having to worry about having it mapped for the moment. I don't mind having to alter a loom or build one from scratch. Is it worth waiting a little while longer and getting a megasquirt unit as I've been told it will make things easier if I want to do an engine transplant later down the line. Does the megasquirt software self learn and do I need any obscure rare parts to fit it? Is this the right way to go, Im a bit confused.

 

Thanks again

 

Chris

[welshpug 1,626]

MP3.1 is still a fairly basic system, think Jetronic but Digital

 

MP3.2 self learns to a certain extent, but is still fairly limited in its parameters and is tailored to a set of components and engine characteristics.

 

 

 

 

If you want something you don't need to map you'll need to persevere and find an MP3.1 from a 1.9 XU, there is no engine management that you can just bolt on and it'll sort itself out.

[welshpug 1,626]

Suitable Donors-

 

 

BX GTi 1.9 litre 8 Valve 90-95 Bosch Motronic MP3.1 0 261 200 206

 

ZX Volcane 1.9 litre 91-95 Bosch Motronic MP3.1 0 261 200 212

 

405 SRi 1.9 litre 90-91 Bosch Motronic MP3.1 0 261 200 205

 

405 SRi 1.9 litre 91-95 Bosch Motronic MP3.1 0 261 200 213

[Ryan 99]

Self learning in ECUs is really only limited to making a few very fine adjustments. You can't plug one into a completely different engine and expect it to map itself. The map from the 1.9 ZX/405/BX is close enough that it'll work with the 1.9 205 engine, but if you wanted to use a 3.1 system from any other car then it would need mapping - it can't completely remap itself.

 

The megasquirt can self learn to some degree, but it's only to get you up and running more easily. You still need to have it mapped properly to get the most out of it.

[sparky 0]

Thanks for all the info guys. I am definitely in at the deep end here.

 

Ok so motronic looks like the way forward. Is there much difference between the MP3.1 and MP3.2? The reason I ask is there is MP3.2 from a ZX/Xantia with an XU10J4 on ebay at the moment. Any good?

 

Just out of interest what spec is the XU10J4? Im not that well up on the engine codes.

 

 

Thanks

 

Chris

[Anthony 1,000]

Ok so motronic looks like the way forward. Is there much difference between the MP3.1 and MP3.2? The reason I ask is there is MP3.2 from a ZX/Xantia with an XU10J4 on ebay at the moment. Any good?

 

Just out of interest what spec is the XU10J4? Im not that well up on the engine codes.

XU10J4 is the 155hp 2.0 16v engine from the Phase 2 405 M16, 306 S16, ZX 16v, and very early Xantia VSX's

 

The management will be ill-suited to the characteristics of the 1.9 8v engine that you've got, so the fuelling and ignition timing will likely be way out.

[sparky 0]

XU10J4 is the 155hp 2.0 16v engine from the Phase 2 405 M16, 306 S16, ZX 16v, and very early Xantia VSX's

 

The management will be ill-suited to the characteristics of the 1.9 8v engine that you've got, so the fuelling and ignition timing will likely be way out.

 

I thought that would be the case. GRRRRRR

 

Why do I get the feeling that this is going to turn into an engine swap

 

I think im going to have to reconsider my options.

 

 

Anyone got an S16 engine for sale?...................

 

Thanks for your help everyone. Learnt a bit more today.

 

Chris

[Anthony 1,000]

What are you actually trying to achieve? You say that you want to get rid of the Jetronic setup for something reliable and economical, but in my experience Jetronic can be both of those very easily if you just spend a bit of time on it.

 

Again, in my experience/opinion, an S16 engine and management is likely to give you far more hassle in terms of reliability - the ACAV system, ignition coils, and lambda sensors are all prone to failure, and random management gremlins also seem to be common. Shame, as it's fundementally a good engine, as is proved when you retrofit XU9J4 (1.9 Mi16) management on it, but the XU10J4 specific bits seem to be flakey.

[pug_ham 241 3 Cars]

there's a late model 405 1.6 in a local yard with 40K on the clock and 3.1 ign. complete. http://macs.bpweb.net/

I'm not aware of any 405 1.6's that used MP3.1, its more likely to be Magnet marelli MM8P.

 

I got one such loom & ecu from a 1.6 405 & thats what it is anyway.

 

Graham.

[KRISKARRERA 2 1 Cars]

Would the MP3.1 be better than the 3.2 because it just uses that one dual coil rather than the 4 coils of the 3.2 which seem to like to die alot?

[welshpug 1,626]

if its a 1.6 405 its most likely to be Marelli-Weber G5 or G6 SPi, or MM8P as mentioned.

 

if its bosch, off a 1.6 405, it'll be MP5.1 according to ATP's listings, though I can't find it on servicebox

 

 

405 1.6 litre 93 on Bosch Motronic MP5.1 0 261 200 676

 

405 1.6 litre 93-94 Bosch Motronic MP5.1 0 261 200 678

 

 

 

 

 

kriss, depends which MP3.2, there's several versions, many use a wasted spark coilpack just like the MP3.1.

Edited July 28, 2009 by welshpug

[sparky 0]

What are you actually trying to achieve? You say that you want to get rid of the Jetronic setup for something reliable and economical, but in my experience Jetronic can be both of those very easily if you just spend a bit of time on it.

 

Hi Anthony

 

I understand that Jetronic can be a good system but i've got to the end of my tether with the setup in my car. I've spent hours making sure all components are in working order and tweaking the settings and I still have problems with starting, idle control and mixture/emissions. I just think the complete system i've got is duff which is why I want to start from scratch making upgrades where possible in the process.

 

Hopefully i've sourced an ECU and loom from a BX GTI 8v from a forum member so things are looking up for the moment

 

You have pm

 

 

 

Chris

[pug_ham 241 3 Cars]

Like Mei says & the 605 2.0 / 2.0t also uses MP3.1 / 2 has a seperate coilpack so there are more than one to pick from.

 

605 2 litre 89-90 Bosch Motronic MP3.1 0 261 200 202

 

605 2 litre 91-93 Bosch Motronic MP3.1 0 261 200 214

 

605 Turbo 2 litre 93 on 2 Bosch Motronic MP3.2 0 261 200 219

 

605 Turbo 2 litre 94 on 2 Bosch Motronic MP3.2 0 261 200 803

 

605 Turbo 2 litre 95 on 2 Bosch Motronic MP3.2 0 261 200 808

 

I can only think of the S16 which uses multple coilpacks on MP3.2.

 

Graham.

[welshpug 1,626]

I think there are MP5.2 versions that run a COP arrangement, but still wasted spark.

 

plenty to choose from if you don't mind getting them mapped to suit, could even go on a 1600.

 

what I haven't looked into is how suited the 106's 1.6 engine Motronic system would work on a 1600 205.

Edited July 30, 2009 by welshpug

[pug_ham 241 3 Cars]

what I haven't looked into is how suited the 106's 1.6 engine Motronic system would work on a 1600 205.

I've wondered about this using the S2 106 Rallye management which is MM8P & mappable.

 

S1 106 Rallye uses MP3.1 iirc.

 

Graham.