Toyo Vs Yokohama

[mattmalden 0]

Hi,

 

Having just fitted a set of four new 195 / 45 / 15 Toyo T1R proxies to my D reg 1.9 205 I thought I'd give my opinion.

 

Previously I was running on Yokohama S drive (simmilar size).

 

The Toyo's look a bit fussy in my opinion. I liked the look of the tread pattern in the shop but in the flesh/on the car it's not as impressive / noticable as I'd thought.

 

Costs of both of these tyres are similar at my local tyre fitters.

 

In use. I have to say i prefer the Yokohamas. The Toyo's seems to have too much side wall compliance which gives some lag to the steering making it seem a little vague and unpredictable. I'm running 32 psi frt and 30 rr so I may play with that.

Grip wise I'd say they are on a par in the dry - for some reason the Toyo's give me a bit more confidence in heavy wet weather (probably knowing they have plenty of tread).

I had a massive aquaplane 2 nights ago luckily on an empty road, the Toyo's did really well and grip restored very quickly. I really thought I'd lost it but thanks to the Toyo's and a soft touch I made it. However having said that I don;t think I'll get them again as the side walls are too soft. Next time I'll try goodyear eagles or back to the Yoko's again.

 

Cheers,

 

Matt.

[philfingers 5]

i'd say 32 was too high, i run 28 front, droppping it to 26 cold for a road rally (when using road tyres), and run 24-26 on the back

[MerlinGTI 3]

I like paradas maybe try them next time? Cheap as chips too

[jord294 95]

at least with a slightly wider sidewall, the lip of the alloy is a bit better protected

 

nothing worse than a scuffed or kurbed alloy

[mattmalden 0]

I'll try lowering the tyre pressures and feedback my thoughts. I suppose though it's not going to reduce roll in the side walls though, lets see.

 

I'll definately consider the Paradas but might have to go back to Yokahama next time just to be sure the side walls are less compliant.

 

Cheers!

[C_W 3 1 Cars]

Remember you only just fitted them too, it usually can take about 500miles for tyres to scrub in properly.

[pug_ham 245 3 Cars]

i'd say 32 was too high, i run 28 front, droppping it to 26 cold for a road rally (when using road tyres), and run 24-26 on the back

Same as Phil, I run these pressures on both my 195/50-15 Toyo or Bridgestone tyred track wheels, I found them about the best pressures to use.

 

Graham.

[fast_eddie 0]

I swore 10 years ago I would never buy anothe Yokohama tyre due to there horrendous wet weather performance even trying the AVS's on my 309!. I have just taken delivery of 4 new t1r's so I will pass judgement on them in the next few months(£29 each though so fairly good pricepoint and if they are good in the wet and crap in the dry I will keep them as wet tyres if I do any competition)

[manrajf 0]

I bought myself a set of yoko parada spec 2 for the gti and they were a death trap in the rain, and they lasted just over 6 months for the front ones...never again!! got some Falkens now and they are pretty awsome in comparison

[welshpug 1,677]

why are you using 45's on a 205??

[taylorspug 7]

Remember you only just fitted them too, it usually can take about 500miles for tyres to scrub in properly.

 

Agreed. Especially when it comes to those Toyos. Ive got a set on my car and they were bloody terrible for the first few hundred miles. Give them time and they will tighten up nicely and that vague feeling in the steering will go away. Im happy enough with mine, they dont seem to go off and are coping with my quite extreme (for the road) camber settings well.

[mattmalden 0]

why are you using 45's on a 205??

Ideally I'd have gone for some 50's but I tried some 185 55 15 (std fit) tyres and they scrubbed at the back. The torsion beam must have been dropped 3 or 4 splines, also I've a pair of Eibach 7001's up front so she does sit a bit low (but not that low).

 

I looked up the circumfrences of various sizes 195 50's aren't much less than 185 55's. 185 50's seemed like rocking horse muck, so I went for the 195 45's.

 

Welsh - why not use 195 45's?

 

PS: Another topic I know,but the eibach 7001's are amazing - cheers Miles!

Edited July 20, 2009 by mattmalden

[mattmalden 0]

Agreed. Especially when it comes to those Toyos. Ive got a set on my car and they were bloody terrible for the first few hundred miles. Give them time and they will tighten up nicely and that vague feeling in the steering will go away. Im happy enough with mine, they dont seem to go off and are coping with my quite extreme (for the road) camber settings well.

I'm getting on for 700 miles now with these tyres, things are improving but I still don't think they're as good as the Yoko's. I do around 400 miles a week (my poor 101k D reg phase 1!) so lets see next week!

[pug_ham 245 3 Cars]

Ideally I'd have gone for some 50's but I tried some 185 55 15 (std fit) tyres and they scrubbed at the back. The torsion beam must have been dropped 3 or 4 splines, also I've a pair of Eibach 7001's up front so she does sit a bit low (but not that low).

195/50R15's give effectively the same size rolling radius as the 185/55's but are a much more common size so considerably cheaper.

 

If your car has been lowered three or four splines it must be sat on the rear valance, each spline is approx 30-35mm (depending on which end is pulled free) so its dropped ~120mm minimum. That would explain why the tyres caught but imo it'd be undriveable that low.

 

The standard tyre size is 185/55R15 so it shouldn't have caught even when lowered 60mm.

 

Graham.

[mattmalden 0]

195/50R15's give effectively the same size rolling radius as the 185/55's but are a much more common size so considerably cheaper.

 

If your car has been lowered three or four splines it must be sat on the rear valance, each spline is approx 30-35mm (depending on which end is pulled free) so its dropped ~120mm minimum. That would explain why the tyres caught but imo it'd be undriveable that low.

 

The standard tyre size is 185/55R15 so it shouldn't have caught even when lowered 60mm.

 

Graham.

 

The standard tyre size is 185/55R15 so it shouldn't have caught even when lowered 60mm - thats what I'd have though, but the camber seems to have increased as a result of lowering and this brings the inside top of the tyre closer to the metal inner wheelarch - either that or the swinging arms articulate towards the cars centreline when compressed but that seems a bit impossible with a rear torsion beam.

 

185 55 rolling radius should be 101.75mm

195 50 rolling radius should be 97.5mm

195 45 rolling radius should be 87.75mm

 

Using 101.75 rolling rad tyres rubbed the inner wheelarch, using 87.75 didn't. Even with the 195 45's I can barely fit a finger between the inner tyre wall and the metal work so I played it safe as I didn't think the 4mm rolling radius reduction of a 195 50 would give enough clearance (the tyre probably has a manufacturing tolerance of +/-5mm anyway!).

 

Thats why I went 195 45 15. Whats wrong with that? I think it's worth bearing in mind that we're talking about barely 10mm difference between any of these choices - really how much difference can that make to surface area (contact patch) and hence grip? I do not believe the important factor here is so much to do with size as it is compound hardness and sidewall construction, thats why I believe the topic is so subjective, nothing to do with the odd 5 or 10 mil here or there. I'm still very interested to hear from Welshpug as to why not use 195 45 15's - Sometimes needs must.

 

I guessed at 3 splines as I have 2 205s. My grey one is lower at the back than my mates standard car, and my red one is lower than the grey so I just assumed the grey was 2 splines and the red lowered 3, but based on your information that can no way be the case. I suppose both the grey and red are lowered the same amount of splines (or 1 and 2 respectively) and the height difference due to assembly tolerances and damper condition????

 

Of course I'm no expert, however I have in the past (for 7 years) worked in automotive chassis design, albeit as a CAD designer/draftsman.

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Anyways yesterday I dropped front pressure to 28psi and rears to 26. It is a marked improvement over running 30/28. I can feel the tyres doing a lot more damping now which isn't great (thats the dampers job!) however steering feel and turn in are much better. I must have put 900 miles on the Toyo's now, but I still prefer how the old Yokohama S drives felt at 30psi frt and 28 psi rr. Maybe some more miles on the Toyo's will see more improvement!?

[philfingers 5]

the 45 profiles won't be such an issue at the back but it screws the geometry up at the front to a degree. whether or not it's a marked difference or not I wouldn't know. If you have camber at the back then the beam is either very special or it's needing to be rebuilt.

There really isn't such thing as 'dropping 3 splines' . The splines on either end of the TB are different. If you imagine you set the arm at the height you want and try and fit the TB it will at some point either want you to raise or lower the arm so it can fit in. What you're supposed to do is keep rotating the TB until it just slots in. Someplace in a 360deg rotation of the TB it will just slot in perfectly. So 3 splines, is that on the outer or the inner end, because the end result would be different.

Either way I don't think the 45 tyres on the back are an issue, but the ones on the front maybe having some adverse affect on the geometry. All depending on how low the car is too.

Road rally/rally car tend to have the front higher relative to the back. Keeps the back a little more stable