K & N Airbox Filter Or Standard

[davey205 7 1 Cars]

which is the best to use between a k and n airbox filter and a standard one ?

[gti-si 0]

Entirely depends on you.

 

There's no performance gains to be had, it's just a case of the K and N will free up some space and give a meatier induction sound over the standard unit, so all depends what your after

[omega 82]

Entirely depends on you.

 

There's no performance gains to be had, it's just a case of the K and N will free up some space and give a meatier induction sound over the standard unit, so all depends what your after

 

 

think he means a k and n in the standard air box

[davey205 7 1 Cars]

think he means a k and n in the standard air box

yeah thats what i mean sorry i didn't know what they were called

[Anteas 0]

The k&n filter is probebly sligtly better due to it letting more air pass through at an informed guess but the difference will be minute k&n also make cone filters which go on the air flow meter

Edited July 6, 2009 by Anteas

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

I believe it to be a complete myth. It's all marketing hype, and it works, as you've asked the question.

 

Think about it: can you honestly see that putting a different air filter inside the same airbox that costs 5, 10 , 20 times the cost of a perfectly acceptable, manufacturer designed paper filter is going to change anything about the way the car performs? What exactly are you changing?

 

Myth. Waste of money and time.

[davey205 7 1 Cars]

I believe it to be a complete myth. It's all marketing hype, and it works, as you've asked the question.

 

Think about it: can you honestly see that putting a different air filter inside the same airbox that costs 5, 10 , 20 times the cost of a perfectly acceptable, manufacturer designed paper filter is going to change anything about the way the car performs? What exactly are you changing?

 

Myth. Waste of money and time.

ive done a search but cant see anything about them ; the air filter kit you can get where it is located right behind a headlight? where do i get one of these or is it a diy job?

[gti-si 0]

Just buy the kit and fit it yourself. It's a K and N 57i induction kit, they're car specific. As said though, there will be no performance gains, from either kit, but especially not in the standard air box.

 

I guess in a way, the cone filter behind the headlight would suffer less heatsoak, but it isn't really an engine that suffers from it AFAIK

[richsmells 2]

Do bear in mind that when fitting an induction kit you need to notify your insurance company. Someone on here recently had an accident and the inspector spotted the filter, his next premium was massively increased.

[Tom Fenton 1,526]

What exactly are you changing?

 

The pressure differential across the filter element due to less restriction to flow, especially when the filter starts to load with dirt.

[omega 82]

I believe it to be a complete myth. It's all marketing hype, and it works, as you've asked the question.

 

Think about it: can you honestly see that putting a different air filter inside the same airbox that costs 5, 10 , 20 times the cost of a perfectly acceptable, manufacturer designed paper filter is going to change anything about the way the car performs? What exactly are you changing?

 

Myth. Waste of money and time.

 

dr sarty one point is the cost factor a kn for the air box is about 30 quid and will last as long as the car while a standard one has to be changed every year so if the car is a long term investment it could be a better option dont no if the k and n flows any better in this application though

Edited July 8, 2009 by omega

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

The pressure differential across the filter element due to less restriction to flow, especially when the filter starts to load with dirt.

 

I'm surprised at you saying that Tom. I am of the firm belief, and it's been spoken about many times that this is exactly part of the marketing hype to get you to buy it.

 

Allow me to clarify why I say this as I acknowledge you know far more about cars than me. The filter's purpose is to allow air through whilst it does its main job of filtering; correct? This means all filters collect dirt and at some point need cleaning or replacing depending on the type.

 

The paper filters are dirt cheap, and immensely effective at filtration. But this after market, in-box filter approach implies that the OE paper filter is in some way restricting the engine, and removing it will suddenly release some hidden power. Would you not agree that this is nonsense? As if a manufacturer would spend 100s of 1,000s of pounds on engine development and then restrict it with a £3 concertina'd bit of paper with a rubber seal.

 

Cone filters I can associated with to a degree, based on placement. But I still think it's really only induction roar that gets added to the mix making you feel you're going faster. The real world increase in power with either design is perhaps negligable if not a pure myth just as I and others propose.

 

Tests can be done no doubt to show that a K&N what have you flows more air, but surely that rate/allowance must be proportional to what the engine actually needs, and I cannot see that a manufacturer would put anything in the line that would restrict this.

 

There is a supportive argument/opinion here: Restricted

 

I am more than willing to admit I'm wrong or talking out of my arse. Show me a genuine back to back with comparible results and I'll will eat a used flip-flop. I've been wrong before, and I am stating here that this is my opinion and not fact. I personally would just swap paper filters every 2-3 months. It's easy and cheap enough.

Edited July 8, 2009 by DrSarty

[Tom Fenton 1,526]

As a paper filter collects dirt, its flow capability quickly drops off as a function of the increase in differential pressure over the filter. The cotton/gauze or foam filters collect the dirt without the increase in differential pressure, and hence without the loss of flow. This is fact. If you believe it to be myth then good for you. I have seen different filters tested on a flowbench so can perform my own judgements. If paper filters are so good, why do WRC cars not use them?

[welshpug 1,627]

Or F1 cars for that matter

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

 

Yes well I can't argue for that matter, as I have an ITG foam with oil on. But my engine's not exactly standard, and nor are the F1 or WRX's you're talking about where big big budgets and money are at stake.

 

This is about Dave and his standard car with currently a standard airbox, and I'm saying he'll only be £25 worse off if he swaps his paper filter for a super duper K&N one in the same box.

 

I'm saying in these cirumstances this is a tuning myth, and not making any comparison as you are to uber high performance machines.

[welshpug 1,627]

I fit them mainly because they are environmentally friendly

[Tom Fenton 1,526]

As a paper filter collects dirt, its flow capability quickly drops off as a function of the increase in differential pressure over the filter. The cotton/gauze or foam filters collect the dirt without the increase in differential pressure, and hence without the loss of flow. This is fact.

 

I'll repeat what I said before. It matters not whether fitted to a performance machine or not, the above is a fact, and remains a fact regardless of what application.

[GLPoomobile 958]

The paper filters are dirt cheap, and immensely effective at filtration. But this after market, in-box filter approach implies that the OE paper filter is in some way restricting the engine, and removing it will suddenly release some hidden power. Would you not agree that this is nonsense? As if a manufacturer would spend 100s of 1,000s of pounds on engine development and then restrict it with a £3 concertina'd bit of paper with a rubber seal.

 

Exactly, cheap parts is what it's all about.

 

You are basically implying that (when you know full well it is not the case) cars roll off the production line about as perfect as they could be. Err, no! Every car produced with the purpose of being day-to-day transport (i.e. not somethig designed with performance high the list) is designed with many compromises such as economy, noise, cost to make, performance, comfort etc etc. No matter how much money they invest in R&D they cannot possibly make every part function at it's optimum due to cost restraints, and also the fact that certain parts would undoutedley make the car less economic (fuel wise) and noisier (which mail fail certain legislations, and undoubtedley would be in conflict with the interest of most consumers).

 

Extending the example - are budget tyres just as good (good being defined as wet and dry grip, and ability to stop) as more expensive performance tyres?

 

implies that the OE paper filter is in some way restricting the engine, and removing it will suddenly release some hidden power

The fact is, a paper filter DOES restrict an airflow. Any filter will restrict airflow. Aftermarket 'performance' filters are all about reducing that restriction without compromising filtration. Something any OE car manufacturer could do themselves, and fit to all cars, but is obviously cost prohibative (along with the aformentioned need to keep noise levels down).

 

It's not as if these filters are some sort of snake oil

 

And I'm not suggesting that fitting a K&N filter element to a standard 1.9 8v is going to make the car noticeably quicker, I just felt the need to say that aftermarket filters are not just about marketing (although as in any performance product there is always an element of hype to promote these products).

Edited July 8, 2009 by GLPoomobile

[Tesstuff 222]

Rich, for a better understanding of the use and efficiency of K&N air filters it would be wise to look at the wider picture and not just at the 205 Gti application.

 

Some cars, and some that i have had, do get a nice little increase in bhp due to the fitting of just that filter.

 

Good point made by GLP that the cars leave the factory in a state of compromise, air filter included.

[tagy 1]

Also I don't think Ford would want to fit new mondeo's with air filters that lasted a very long time, I reckon they would rather replace them every year during servicing at a big mark-up price.

 

As if a manufacturer would spend 100s of 1,000s of pounds on engine development and then restrict it with a £3 concertina'd bit of paper with a rubber seal.

 

You could apply that theory to every component of a new car.. brake pads, exhaust, coolant hoses, bushes etc. On a new mondeo are they the best quality/material? No, but they are good enough.

[davey205 7 1 Cars]

i had a 57i cone induction kit on my saxo 1.1 and believe it or not it actually made it noticeably slower! i couldn't believe it i think it must have suffered really bad heatsoak.

[johnsimister 10]

Isn't the standard filter foam, not paper? It's in two layers of differing density if a genuine part, and the Halfords replacement I once bought was single-density foam. Nowadays I use the K&N element in the standard filter box because I'll never have to replace it, just clean and oil it occasionally.

 

John

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

Nowadays I use the K&N element in the standard filter box because I'll never have to replace it, just clean and oil it occasionally.

 

*Prepares himself...*

 

And what's the performance difference John?

 

[johnsimister 10]

*Prepares himself...*

 

And what's the performance difference John?

 

 

Subjectively, none.

[pug_ham 242 3 Cars]

As already made quite clear, a K&N filter in the standard airbox will give no noticable increase in performance, the only benefit beiong that you can clean it to your hearts content rather than throwing it away & fitting another.

 

Its getting fed the same amount of air into the airbox as the standard paper or foam filter so it won't magically give you Xbhp more, at most you might get 1/2X bhp but they have been proven to give a small benefit over a standard filter in the standard airbox.

 

Conversely, the induction kit made no better noticable power but it felt faster because of the extra induction noise.

 

If you can really notice the extra power when the gain is only 1-5 bhp then you are a better man than most engine developers & tuners.

 

If you want to fit an induction kit there is a guide on the main website in the articles section saving you at least half the price of a full kit.

 

Graham.