Nooo Not Again!

[davepug205 7]

HI,

 

Well

 

I decided to throw a 6 engine in my daily for abit more go as a little project.

 

The old engines out an new is in, but I have one problem......

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Wiring

 

 

I have searched for hours but If youve got a good link please do

 

 

My car is a E-reg with one brown plug as apposed to two, so all my research beforehand was useless.

 

Can anyone help with this please im confused. Any pic or diagrams for this loom

 

205 5 pin plug

 

46a grey

32 yellow

76 white (thick)

black/ green into one green thick wire

 

8 pin plug

 

808 yellow

8081 yellow

8071 brown

323? beige

820 yellow

821 pink

1234 green

8055 green

 

 

19 pin 306

 

465 yellow

220 orange

0120 grey

0018 grey

445 green

414 yellow

400 white

? 44 green/ yellow

410 yellow

411 red

426 red

140 green

465 yellow

401 beige

?41 beige

480 beige

1070 brown

?00 white ( thick)

?20 white ( thick)

 

 

This cleares alot up but where does it go on the 205?

 

8 pin round multiplug:

 

(you won't need to wire any of these unless you use the key immobiliser)

 

 

Brown 8071 -to air con pump (n/a)

 

Yellow 808 -brown temp sender on stat housing (n/a)

 

Yellow 8081 -as wire 808 above.

 

Green 8055 -aircon (n/a)

 

Green 1234 -aircon (n/a)

 

Yellow 820 -immobiliser ecu

 

Pink 821 -immobiliser ecu

 

Beige 822 -immoliliser ecu

 

 

 

19 pin round multiplug:

 

 

Green 140 -obd socket

 

Beige 141 -obd socket

 

Beige 480 -engine fault/k light (switched -tve)

 

Beige 401 -coolant temp gauge sender

 

Yellow/Green -M444 -permanent earth/-tve

 

Yellow 414 -oil level gauge (n/a)

 

Green 415 -as wire 414 above

 

Yellow 410 -oil pressure warning light

 

Yellow 465 -goes to wire no.1360, vehicle speed sensor on gearbox (electrical speedo drive) (n/a)

 

Red 426 -obd socket + rev counter/tacho speed

 

Red 411 -oil temp sender

 

Grey CC4 -Air bag control unit?? (switched +tve) (n/a)

 

Grey C120 -reverse light switch

 

Orange 220 -reverse light switch

 

Grey 123 -Switched +tve that powers Lambda sensor. (Power comes from wire no.120 and then goes through fuse 11 in a 306)

 

Dark Brown/Redish -1070 alternator warning/charging light

 

White 400 -coolant temp gauge sender

 

Thick White 100 -switched +tve to starter motor (to start)

 

Thick White 120 -fuel pump (through fuse 9 in a 306)

 

 

Many thanks guys

[welshpug 1,622]

should be pretty easy, I fitted an S16 into a car with the same arrangement of multiplugs last year.

 

I basically connected all the original sensor wires to the new engine, removing all the 8 valve injection stuff totally, then remove all the un-necessary stuff from the S16 loom, stuck the ECU in the original position and connected up the 3 wires required in the car, and the permanent live to the double relay.

[welshpug 1,622]

[davepug205 7]

Cheers Welshpug - So if i keep the original sensors and the 1 brown plug ive got;

 

205 - 306

46a grey - ?

32 yellow - switched ignition to white 100 ?

76 white - white 120

cut off black/green as above?

 

Thanks again

Edited June 19, 2009 by davepug205

[davepug205 7]

Is Grey 46A the starter solenoid as with the later loom?

 

Thanks

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

The starter is in the Sensor loom and not the ECU loom plug, The early car's are even easier to wire up and you don;t have to re-route any wires with the old 8v loom gone

Best advice I will give is work backwards from the Double relay pin info either on here or in the Haynes book of lie's,

On 306 looms the power normally comes from the starter +, only Xsara looms had to be different

[davepug205 7]

Hi guys

I think ive got everything connected but im stuck with a few last things, the fuel pump kicks in on second click i think its going through the relay ok, and the starter cranks the engine but it just wont run!

 

I think the injecters are just letting the fuel flow into the engine and arent closing, does that mean ive got no power to the ECU? or have I wired it up wrong?

 

Also which wire on the 6 loom gives the ECU power? do I conect this to the starter?

 

Sorry for all the Questions

 

Cheers Dave

[Paul_13 212 1 Cars]

Have a little read of my thread, got the same problem at the moment(ish as yours).

 

Theres a link on there on how to test the relay, basically says if the pump comes on second click the relays fudged.

Edited June 23, 2009 by paul_xiii

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

The grey wire in the 205 5pin is usually the tacho/rev counter signal. Have you got your tacho working?

 

76A in the 5pin as stated is the fuel pump trigger.

 

That's all I can be pretty sure about.

 

You can lift the fuel rail out (firing the injectors into little cups) to see what the injectors/fuelling system is up to.

Edited June 23, 2009 by DrSarty

[davepug205 7]

This double bloody relay!!

 

Is it the one next to the ecu under the dash in the 205? ive run the wires to that!! Im confussed

 

can anyone tell me which wires go to the relay and if its the right one Im wiring.

 

Ive spent hours searching 'relay' 'double relay' 'relay pin' I presurme their different on different looms.

 

I read something about pin 12 &14 but the relay only has 5 pins! the only thing with 14odd pins is the ECU?

[Anthony 1,000]

This double bloody relay!!

 

Is it the one next to the ecu under the dash in the 205? ive run the wires to that!! Im confussed

That's the 8v tachymetric relay, which is redundant on a GTi conversion.

 

The double relay is about the size of a pack of cigerettes and lives on the GTi-6 loom itself, usually somewhere around the battery area.

[gti-si 0]

Right, ignore the 205 relay under the dash, disconnect it and rip it out. You don't need any of those wires, only the white wire FROM the fuel pump. You need to take this into the engine bay with the other wires. The '6 loom has it's own relay, or double relay. You'll find it near the ECU plug, it's a disconnectable black box, pull the red tab on the plug and it pops out.

 

Get rid of the 8v ECU too and all the wires, all you need is the brown plug with the guages, switched live, rev counter, starter and your white fuel pump trigger.

 

Once you've found the relay, you need to find the wire going to pin 14 on the GTI6 double relay, you can find this at the round plug on the 306 loom using a multimeter (the wire numbers change from loom to loom) just put one end on pin 14 on the relay plug, the other on the suspect wires till you get a beep . You give that a switched live from the switched live on your 205, yellow wire 32? Connect your white wire from your fuel pump to wire 120 on the '6 loom. Then connect the starter solenoid and that's enough to start.

 

Remember, your using NO part of the old 8v management, remove all of it to stop confusion.

 

Edit: Just remember, you'll also need a permanent live to the ECU, this will be on a ring connecter which you put on the large starter ring terminal

Edited June 23, 2009 by gti-si

[davepug205 7]

Well ive took the loom back off again

 

I must be f***ing stupid or something I cant get the dam thing running Ive got the origional loom wired up to the starter and alternator and have a few plugs left over on the original loom.

 

Also I think I need to take all the unused plugs and wiring off the 306 loom to leave what I need.

 

 

Ive taken some pics If you see anything wrong please let me know,

 

I could only connect some of the sensers because the engines out of an xsara, with a 6 loom on! so they didnt mate up.

 

I had a switched live I think 32a to the grey pin 14 and the thick white wire to the fuel pump but this time it didnt even prime, I think I got further using the wrong relay

 

Can anyone identify the plugs for me, also the wires have no numbers on now as theyve been cut etc.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[davepug205 7]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If anyone can help me out Id be very gratefull

[gti-si 0]

Mate, you want me to come over tomorrow and sort it out? I'll be in manchester and it'd be much easier for me if I can see it myself?

[welshpug 1,622]

here's what I know!

 

ring terminal - Earth

 

 

blue plug - green wire, goes into fatter shielded wire, wire 122, rev counter.

 

orange - coil feed IIRC

 

other one, coil negative I think.

 

 

ignition amp and connector for Distributor signal wires.

 

 

Reverse light switch

 

 

 

starter motor and oil pressure switch + sender?

 

 

knock sensor and oil pressure switch visible.

 

 

shunt box, power feeds to interior, and fan loom, and connection from battery.

 

Edited June 23, 2009 by welshpug

[welshpug 1,622]

some more

 

 

not sure on these, looks like possibly where the tachymetric relay has been chopped out?

 

 

far left, VSS white plug, then Lambda, Double relay, and inertia switch plug.

 

 

crank sensor and engine loom/management earth.

 

 

white = TPS, grey = IAT, yellow = T/B heater.

 

 

ICV, PAS pressure switch, starter motor possibly.

 

 

self explanatory here, they each fit onto the same colour sender on or near the stat housing

 

green = ECU, Blue = Gauge and light, Brown = Bitron sensor, for A/C cars only. Grey = MAP, Black = spare.

 

 

 

 

OWSAT

[pug_ham 240 3 Cars]

In your first bank of pictures;

 

1. Earth wire, possibly from the gearbox earth stud.

 

2 &3 4. Coil wires, including switch 12v coil feed & rev counter signal wire. Check them for wire numbers.

 

4. All of the above in one picture.

 

5. Ignition module & dizzy hall sensor plug. Not needed.

 

Last one, shunt box. Still needed.

 

The ones in between can't tell from such small pieces of wire but you should've marked where they came from during removal.

 

Second bank of pictures;

 

1. More coil related wires?

 

2. GTI-6 loom, black relay is double relay, red & black plug is Lambda iirc, black plug with two white wires, IFS (inertia fuel switch).

 

3. CAS plug? Test this with a multimeter from the ecu plug to make sure.

 

4. Air temp sensor, TPS & throttle body heater on GTI-6 minlet manifold / throttle body.

 

5. ECU Coolant temp sensor (blue) , a/c (bitron) sensor (brown) & dash guages (grey).

 

ALL the GTI-6 plugs are highlighted in This topic.

 

Graham.

[welshpug 1,622]

just noticed there's a bit of loom you haven't pictured, it should have the knock sensor cam sensor, possibly oil level and pressure, and EVAP canister solenoid plugs too.

[davepug205 7]

Cheers for all the help guys thats cleared it up a little,

 

hopefully Gti-si is coming over to give me a hand tomorrow ( cheers mate)

 

I think your right I couldnt find a plug for the crank sensor? should it have one?

[davepug205 7]

Wooohooo! ITS ALIVE!!

 

Bid thanks to everyone for answering the stupid questions

 

Once I was using the right relay I was nearly there,

 

but a big thanks goes to gti-si for coming down to show me how its done

 

I hadnt joined the wires for the interia switch and the permanent live is the big ring not the little one.

 

Just need to sort the cooling and exhaust now, but the dam xsara manifold is different to the 6 downpipe, so the fun isnt over yet

 

Cheers Dave