Calling All 205 Gti6 Track Drivers

[Mac210882 0]

Hello again follks

 

I'd like some advice on the front end setup of people who are tracking a GTi6 converted 205. I bought my car with a Koni shock & spring setup front and rear, and I've run that for a couple of years with the 1900cc 8v, the Mi16 and now the GTi6. Due to damper failure recently I'm now running 306 GTi6 Bilstein shocks up front with the Koni springs.

 

It has generally been OK but I think the extra weight of the GTi6 engine on track, with R888 tyres is showing it up to be a little too low and soft, I had severe tyre catching and rubbing at Cadwell Park this week (so much so I got black flagged for the amount of smoke it was producing mid corner ). The metal wheel arch has cut a groove into the tyre it was that bad.

 

So, I think the answer to my woes is to ditch the current setup, and go for something a little more track focused, stiffer, and perhaps 10-20mm higher. At the moment I think it's too low on the Koni springs:

 

 

I assume coilovers are the way forward, that will give me height adjustability as well as the opportunity to play with spring rates. What are the best ones to go for? I can't afford to spend megabucks, I think my budget is probably £350-£400 max although I would like to spend less and don't mind going second hand to get a bargain.

 

Before I start shopping, I want to understand what other people who are tracking a 205 GTi6 are running damper wise, as well as spring rates and ride height so I don't waste my time.

 

Cheers

 

Iain

 

Edited to add - I'm also running 309 arms for the extra camber

Edited June 12, 2009 by Mac210882

[Mac210882 0]

Forgot to add - this is purely a track car, trailered to the circuit. No road use.... therefore no sacrifice needed for day to day comfort

[fast_eddie 0]

I will watch this thread with great interest.

Would it be a good idea to start a sticky thread on 'best suspension set up-spring rates/geometry/torsion bars/anti roll bars etc etc(apologies admins if this has been done already)

Surely now, there cant be a set up that has not been tested by soemone over the years? I know we all drive differently and want different things from our car but for example, my best set up would have the title:

 

I drive fairly aggressively:

 

I would like my car quite hard but compliant, with a little smidge of understeer, with controllable oversteer if needed/wanted.

 

I currently have konis on the front 300lb springs 30mm lowered

Rear end is standard roll bars and torsion bars with koni shocks and lowered 30mm

I have a mix of tyres(soon to be swapped for new T1r's)

 

Car undeersteers too much for me.

 

Dont really know if this can work but maybe its worth looking at?

[Tom Fenton 1,562]

There have been similar topics recently about this. In a nutshell making the front stiff without the rear will make the car understeer like a pig. Stiffer rear bars and anti roll bar will make a big difference to the car.

[fast_eddie 0]

Thanks Tom but as a relatively new member who has been out of the scene for about 10years I just thought it might be a good idea to consolidate everyones set ups in detail as a form of library for everyone to look at?

Cheers

[Matt Holley 11]

Ive got bilstien coilovers with 200lb springs, ive set my height about 20mm heigher than yours, Ive got 309 bones and shafts and also adjustable top mounts, on the rear ive got bilstien tarmac shocks on a 309 beam. seems to handle o.k with no rubbing.

 

I may go stiffer springs and bars later on but happy with it at the moment.

[Toddy 8]

http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.php?s...94&hl=tyres

 

Is it wearing your tyres in the same area as this?

[oli-pug 6 2 Cars]

Yours looks way too low if you're on shocks and springs! No wonder its eating the tyres.

 

As you only use it on track, your best option is definitely a set of coilovers but it all depends on budget, and whether you can afford to up the rear spring rate at the same time.

 

I'm currently running Gaz Golds with 8" 280lb springs, 23mm torsion bars & 24mm rear arb. I use the car on track and as a daily driver, and it's still bearable on bumpy b-roads, but definitely comes into its own on the smooth stuff. If it were only for track, i'd go stiffer still though. Maybe 350lb front and 25mm bars.

 

As for ride heights, i'm running maybe 10-15mm higher on the front than you with about 5mm rake on the rear.

[Mac210882 0]

http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.php?s...94&hl=tyres

 

Is it wearing your tyres in the same area as this?

 

Yes, outside edge on the metal wheel arch - exactly the same as shown on that picture

[Mac210882 0]

Thanks for the input - the general view is that I can stiffen and raise the front end, but need to match the rear to prevent understeer. How would I stiffen the rear end as well? Harder shocks and thicker ARB?

Edited June 12, 2009 by Mac210882

[Batfink 201]

for a dedicated track car 300lb springs or more with your tyre choice and at least 22mm rear torsion bars.

[Tom Fenton 1,562]

A thicker ARB is a big improvement, but to increase the wheel rate it is really thicker torsion bars that are needed, unfortunately these aren't always cheap! Beware of going too stiff on rear damping as this can make the car a real handful on bumpy roads. I've just fitted 23mm torsion bars to my 205 (with 309 beam) and to be honest I thought it would be terrible, but in fact it is not too bad at all.

[Toddy 8]

Yes, outside edge on the metal wheel arch - exactly the same as shown on that picture

 

Go back to 205 wishbones or have the inside lip rolled to create more space.

 

I think its a case of different tolerances when the 205's were built. The wings and arches were designed to fit a wheel with a 205 wishbone pivoting with enough clearance for the lip on the wing and also the body trim.

While using 309 arms this is marginal whether their is enough clearance or not, also worth considering is how square the outer edge of the tyre is, some my clear the arch, others will catch.

 

Fitting new suspension will help as the 306 dampers will be a little soft for track work, but under hard cornering, due to added grip of the 888's you may still have tyre to arch contact unless you raise the front end.

[Garry 1]

Also, bear in mind that the stiffer you go, the harder it will be to drive in the wet as the compliance will be reduced.

I used to run a the Bilstein sprint line kit, with the standard 205 set up and it was pretty predictable in the wet. Now I have all the 'track bits' the margin for error is greatly reduced.