Citroen Bx Wishbones?

[B1ack_Mi16 67]

As I kinda hate the fact that worn balljoint means you need to change the complete wishbone I started looking at other alternatives.

 

I found the BX wishbones to look like this which might seem to be possible to fit to the 205.

 

 

Combining these with the 405 carriers/hubs where the balljoint is bolted into the carrier it seem a nice solution to me..

 

However they still need to fit, so if anyone have tried this before?

 

Bonus is when using 405 carriers brembo calipers will bolt sraight on with the proper 300x28mm discs.

[welshpug 1,678]

no idea if they fit, but they are £18.93 each from Buy parts buy, as opposed to £42 for the 205 ones!

 

one thing that may cause an issue is the angle of the strut in the hub carrier, like the way that a 306 hub carrier on a 205 will cause zero or even positive camber, or a berlingo carrier on a 106 causes severe negative camber!

[Rippthrough 98]

As I kinda hate the fact that worn balljoint means you need to change the complete wishbone I started looking at other alternatives.

 

I didn't really want to show these before I had some 205 ones ready to sell in case of copies popping up, but ah well:

 

 

Takes a nice, cheap and replacable 306 balljoint...

 

 

Bit more money than your solution though

Edited June 2, 2009 by Rippthrough

[welshpug 1,678]

how much more?

[James_R 3]

Good find, I've been looking at having 405 wishbone ends welded on to some 205 wishbones for this type of plan

[welshpug 1,678]

one problem with that though, both arms are cast, so not the best material to weld.

[DrSarty 100 1 Cars]

Good find, I've been looking at having 405 wishbone ends welded on to some 205 wishbones for this type of plan

 

As seen in my sig, Colin Satchell will be making custom wishbones/lower arms to suit most likely 405 hub carriers, as has been mentioned the ball joint resides in the hub, not on the wishbone.

 

Further to that, and as mentioned by WP, Colin will work some magic to get what I think he called the roll-centre sorted out, which strikes me as the avoidance of unwanted camber.

 

I definitely believe that a new combination of wishbones, hub carriers - and driveshafts too on higher output engines - is the way to stop one of the most common handling faults on these cars, which incidentally destroys the feel and character of the car straight-off. That's my opinion of course and not fact; although it's soooo common on here now to see people saying about veer, pull, tuck in, unstable, knocking etc where this wishbone, drop-link and hub combo is at fault.

 

And with the price of wishbones (especially OE) soaring, it only makes sense to sort out a pucka solution.

Edited June 2, 2009 by DrSarty

[Paul_13 212 1 Cars]

one thing that may cause an issue is the angle of the strut in the hub carrier, like the way that a 306 hub carrier on a 205 will cause zero or even positive camber, or a berlingo carrier on a 106 causes severe negative camber!

 

Sorry to but in, Welshpug if you out a 205 1.9 hub on a 306 what affect does this have?

I've only put one on my 306 as the wheel bearing was knackered on the 306 hub.

The steering's all over the place and my tires are dissentagrating at a serious rate

 

DrSarty- Loving the avatar! lol

Edited June 2, 2009 by paul_xiii

[Rippthrough 98]

Should be the other way around, negative camber on one side of the car!

[taylorspug 7]

In 8 years of 205 ownership im still yet to wear a balljoint out to the point it makes the car horrible to drive, on any of my 205s. I admire the solutions on offer, especially Phils, but maybe some have problems past weak balljoints?

[B1ack_Mi16 67]

no idea if they fit, but they are £18.93 each from Buy parts buy, as opposed to £42 for the 205 ones!

 

one thing that may cause an issue is the angle of the strut in the hub carrier, like the way that a 306 hub carrier on a 205 will cause zero or even positive camber, or a berlingo carrier on a 106 causes severe negative camber!

 

205/309 ones over here cost 230£ each at the 3'rd party places and like 700£ at Peugeot!

 

I was planning to get some BX arms on the scrappy and put polybushes in them.

 

Need to find one arm to compare it to the 205/309 ones and see if this really might be possible

[DrSarty 100 1 Cars]

In 8 years of 205 ownership im still yet to wear a balljoint out to the point it makes the car horrible to drive, on any of my 205s. I admire the solutions on offer, especially Phils, but maybe some have problems past weak balljoints?

 

You're totally correct. I've had it twice though now, and it's come up on here quite a lot of late.

 

I'm sure the cost of wishbones is not the only reason many people have experimented/are using other wishbone/hub combinations.

 

I've never had a balljoint fail either, although I have heard of it. However I have certainly ovalled 2 hub carriers, both on the same side, and your observation about something else probably causing it is just as likely as me having bad luck, and replacing an ovalled hub with a soon to oval hub.

 

This is one reason I'm very excited about my new project, as the car will in effect be new and improved. New ideas and new parts to make it as much fun but less prone to the issues which have surfaced over 20 years of often very hard driving. Ideas like Black Mi16's here shows that the 205 'improvement spirit' is alive and well, and are quite nickable for other projects.

 

I hope you'll keep us informed.

[James_R 3]

I only want to do it as with the 405/6 hubs you can place a machined cone on the BBJ position and TRE pick ups and then use RJ's so you regain the wishbone angle when the car is lowered also with an RJ in the end you can have some adjustment too, plus the aformentioned brembo-idge not so much the wearing out the BBJ as such

[B1ack_Mi16 67]

I've been in the workshop trying to do some measurements on both a 205 and 405 carrier.

 

As far as I can see the angle between the strut line and the wheel bearing bore seem to be the same on both carriers, approx 92.5 degrees.

But this is only rough measuremens.

 

Someone got more precise measures of this?

[Hilgie 16 2 Cars]

I notices the same when we were working on figuring out the 309 4x4

 

Angle is about the same (give or take a degree) which should not be a problem given the wider track (and increased camber).

[tom_m 0]

I didn't really want to show these before I had some 205 ones ready to sell in case of copies popping up, but ah well:

 

Takes a nice, cheap and replacable 306 balljoint...

 

Bit more money than your solution though

 

if you could do these with a bush on the inner end instead of the RJ's i'd be much more inclined to try them, the ball joint might be nice and cheap, but i bet the RJs aren't!

[Cameron 16]

Depends what RJs you use, but in those sizes even the heavy duty maintenance free ones are actually relatively cheap. The price seems to start increasing massively with sizes over 12-14mm.

 

Ps, nice design!

Edited June 16, 2009 by Cameron

[B1ack_Mi16 67]

About the BX ones it seem they won't be a direct fit (too wide between bushes), but I have now got myself a spare subframe, so I have a plan to try to fit a pair anyway.

 

Just the fact that the 300x28mm discs fits directly onto the hubs with Brembo calipers is motivation enough.

 

Also the BX ones seem to be the same length as the 309 ones bush centerline to balljoint center.

[Rippthrough 98]

if you could do these with a bush on the inner end instead of the RJ's i'd be much more inclined to try them, the ball joint might be nice and cheap, but i bet the RJs aren't!

 

Actually, they're not that bad - about £15 for the small one, £20 for the large one, all carbon/PTFE lined, and they all come with properly sealing neoprene boots that are good enough to hold grease in and muck out, so they last a lot longer, the front especially is massively over-rated for what it is doing anyway.

 

Thanks Cameron - much less stress on the rear rose joint this way - as you can see my own set are using aluminium ones

Edited June 16, 2009 by Rippthrough

[Cameron 16]

Very nice

I've shelved my project for now, need to focus my efforts on getting my car ready. Not that I was doing all that much work on it anyway.

[Rippthrough 98]

Very nice

I've shelved my project for now, need to focus my efforts on getting my car ready. Not that I was doing all that much work on it anyway.

 

I'm spending as much time as I can throwing the car sideways on rubble roads to see how long the joints will last for heavy rallying use, much more fun

[Cameron 16]

Alright for some!

[Rippthrough 98]

Alright for some!

 

Well it would be but it appears they outlast both the sump guard and the sump

[Cameron 16]

Well those are deemed as spares in rallying aren't they? So that's not too bad.

[Rippthrough 98]

Well those are deemed as spares in rallying aren't they? So that's not too bad.

 

Anything between the wheels and the roof is a consumable when it comes to rallying!

Edited June 16, 2009 by Rippthrough