Engine Possibilities

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

am looking into engine options for the hillclimb pug and was wondering if you can convert a xu9 8v bottom end to run a gti6 16v head?

 

Thanx

[welshpug 1,627]

if you have to yes, but its easier to start with a 16v block.

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

but there weren't any 16v 205's which I can use a block, must be a block from a 205 which is my biggest problem

[welshpug 1,627]

in that case you could get a bracket made up for it easily enough, the main issue is that the 1.9 Mi16 mounting bracket doesn't match up with all the holes on the 8valve block, and the 8 valve one is in the way of the timing belt.

Edited May 15, 2009 by welshpug

[James_R 3]

use the search button

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

ok sorry i have now read a few threads and have a few ideas but i really have no idea when it comes to crank journals/rods/piston/deck height/chamber cc variations that can be used!!

 

the 2 main componants will be:

 

xu9 block

gti6 head

 

i would like to run a higher cc than 1905 or the usual 1926cc (83.5mm) so this would mean fitting a 2.1td 92mm crank, not the best in a xu9 block ive heard but surely it can be done with maybe mi16 pistons and customs rods to match the 2 together!?

 

would be nice to go to the extra expense of forged 83.5mm pistons and set of liners but this would be adding alot of extra cost

 

whats your thoughts?

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

You're entering a whole new world with your last post which is possibly adding to numerous contradictions in your thread.

 

Originality is always encouraged on here, however I think two things are contributing to the lack of usable replies. One is that many if not most engine combinations have already been tried (and are covered on here anyway - hence James' reply) and the second is these contradictions, such as saying you want 16v but the rules may stand in your way, and that you could use custom forged pistons, but don't want to spend the money (circa £500-600+).

 

If the rules say no 16v, non-orginal engines then you're screwed really aren't you?

 

If you can use a variety of parts and scrape through scrutineering, then I think it's commonly accepted that (for your chosen displacement class), then the XU7 block is the way forward with interesting cams in an XU10J4RS (GTI6) head. Alternatively go the TU engine route, which I think is around 1.6L but maybe there's potential to up the displacement.

 

Without a clear goal and understanding across the forum of what you want and what the constraints are, then I think the number of decent, helpful replies will remain fairly low.

 

Sorry: but sometimes brutal honesty can be best. Good luck with whatever you choose; I think a re-think is in order. Always glad to help though, so don't take this negatively.

Edited May 16, 2009 by DrSarty

[Anulfo 22]

What do the regs of your hillclimb class state that you can do within your class??I know mine are for roadgoing you have to stick with the original head + block(ruling out the 16 valve head) but for modded you could go the whole hog!!!!..Mi16,Gti-6 engine etc!!!Personally ive always tried to get as much bang for my buck without resorting to mega expensive engine builds by specialist builders!!!

But as the saying goes you pay your money you take your choice.

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

like I've said the regs state that I must retain a block as fitted to any 205 as standard, anything else is free engine wise.........which is why I wanna convert to 16v but retain the original ally xu9 block! Don't wanna go iron diesel block if I can help it!

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

No one will know anyway bar us on here, I know when I raced in Mod Prods the rules stated the same but allot ran the 16v with a 8v head, The differances are really only at the rear with some extra ribbing so unless your fully clued up on Pug's no one will find out

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

so your sayin mi16 all the way?

 

I am currently running a fully rebuilt xu9 8v bottom end and already have a gti6 engine ready at qep do with how I please

[Kartman205 0]

but there weren't any 16v 205's which I can use a block, must be a block from a 205 which is my biggest problem

 

Some late model year cars may yield a 16v block, it turns out our Jplate base car came with one fitted from new, on the production line if they ran out of one type of block they would use anything to hand. As Miles says no one but us would know.

[Cameron 16]

That may be true if you're using a 16v block and 8v head as it will look the same at first glance, but if you have a great big 16v head in there giving the game away they may well check the block for originality. Clever exploitation of the rules is one thing, but cheating is bad mkay.

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

Well you could just grind the extra ribbing off then unless it was opened up, No one would be the wiser

[Cameron 16]

But then what's the gain with using the 16v bottom end, just the internals?

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

if I win the class or break a record I don't wanna have in the corner of my mind that I'm using an illegal block whether u can identify it or not I WILL KNOW and I would feel like a cheat even thou I know the mi16 block is only offering me better reliability and ease of fitting over the xu9 8v to 16v block conversion

 

I hope everyone can understand my situation, if not I can apologies for wasting ur time

[Cameron 16]

Exactly! Might be worth buying a 6 head and seeing how everything lines up. Then you get an idea of what work needs to be done to fit it and if it all seems like too much hassle you can always just flog it.

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

yeh ive already a whole 6 engine with Matt at QEP just waiting for me to do somethin with it so im going to call him monday and have a chat about possibilties of him doin his magic on the head and fitting it to a well balanced xu9 block and whether it'll even work!

 

thanx for the help and guidance

 

im goin to keep searchin on here and gather so info and specs

[James_R 3]

If you just want to use a RS head on an XU9J4 bottom end then you literally just bolt one to the other you see 11:1 compression and put in some senisble cams newmans PH4's or something, get a mappable ign set up, keep the carbs and put them on a longmans inlet and presto you'll be seeing the 190-200BHP region no problem, and it's still an alloy block bottom end. and cheap (ish)

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

that sounds ideal, ill look into this

 

thanx mate

[welshpug 1,627]

have a look at Cameron's thread, that's what the basic spec of his engine is.

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

hi all

 

after doin alot of extensive searchin on the forum getting lots of info together to put together an engine i need to know what can be done outside the box....

 

i cant use the Xu7 1.8 block so i need to go the route of a xu9 1.9 and make that 1.8 meaning throwing in the 81.4mm xu7 crank and finding pistons and rods to match to also give me a hopefuly 12.5 cr running a GTi 6 head!!

 

now you can get to 1783cc with the 81.4 crank and 83.5 bore

 

BUT if i wanted 1800cc on the nose could i not go with the following 2 options:

 

81.4 crank

Liners bored to 83.9mm and 84mm pistons skimmed down to 83.9 giving 1800cc on the dot

 

OR

 

83.5mm bore

grind crank down to 81.2mm stroke to give 1800cc on the dot

 

 

i need to work out what pistons and rods to run to give the 12.5 cr and im tryin to learn how to work this all out the moment, really wanna understand it all as im a geek for facts and figures but have never attempted it before, am searching non stop for rod lengths/journal widths/G-pin dia/Big End Dia/Small End Dia/Combustion chambers volumes/dish volumes etc etc and am gathering quite an extensive list so i can get it all worked out

 

its probably going to need either custom rods or pistoms either way but anyone know anythin i dont, ie "this rod and piston combo from this engine will work" please throw the info at me!!

 

regards

 

simon

[Batfink 201]

look at the TU engines too for a possibility. With a Picasso box you can run a BE gearbox.

I dont see the issue with using a 16v block. Its advantage is cost, rather than performance..

 

K.

[James_R 3]

simon there's a problem with your calcs or a typo

 

83.9x81.4 sounds right, but you'd have to gain stroke not loose it on a smaller bore to get the same cc's

 

Also worth noting is in reality 1783cc (i.e 83.5mm and std bore) will be the most workable option you won't loose much power fomr the 17cc you';re missing to get you to 1800cc on the nose.

 

Also worth saving your time on all this, just ring Sandy and give him the moneys, he can source the parts for this, as per Dixon's engine which is essentially what you're talking about in the first place.

 

Good luck though

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

simon there's a problem with your calcs or a typo

 

83.9x81.4 sounds right, but you'd have to gain stroke not loose it on a smaller bore to get the same cc's

 

Also worth noting is in reality 1783cc (i.e 83.5mm and std bore) will be the most workable option you won't loose much power fomr the 17cc you';re missing to get you to 1800cc on the nose.

 

Also worth saving your time on all this, just ring Sandy and give him the moneys, he can source the parts for this, as per Dixon's engine which is essentially what you're talking about in the first place.

 

Good luck though

 

sorry yes i meant to write 84mm bore with a ground down 81.2mm stroke

 

but yeh it does sound more hassle than its worth for the extra 17cc

 

thanx mate