ALEX 98 1 Cars Posted March 22, 2009 <--------It's just failed it's MOT on the drivers side sill, that and a brake light bulb! The MOT garage wanted to just weld a plate over the rust for £180 to get it through, seemed like a bit of bodge to me though I've sourced a new sill from Peugeot for £50 and started taking the old one off, I'm a bit unsure how it's welded behind the rear quarter panel though, Just had that painted too! I've progressed a bit from the pic below, not by much though, as I've had a bit of a hangover to tackle it with any enthusiasm! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tom Fenton 1,526 Posted March 22, 2009 Have you any better pics? Personally what I would do is cut out the affected area and butt weld in a repair piece, there is no point disturbing good metal. I did a sill repair a while ago, there is a thread in Members Works I think about it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
welshpug 1,626 Posted March 22, 2009 it looks like just surface rust, I guess its not though? the sill repair panels I've seen actually have the bottom of the 1/4 panel attached to it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ALEX 98 1 Cars Posted March 23, 2009 The sill is coming off easier than I expected, just by using a wood chisel I've separated the top edge along its spot welds under the door seal. The front bottom part of the A pillar looks like it will come off quite easy too and the bottom edge. It's the bit behind the rear quarter where It's hard to see how its welded in that I'm going to struggle with. I've started to dig out the sealant, but I'm unsure if I can remove the sill without touching the rear quarter, there's a nut for drivers seatbelt welded to the new sill So I'm not sure if it's possible to replace the whole sill, I might have to cut and shut that part. The rust is quite bad, I put a screwdriver through it last night and almost the full length has gone crispy. The passenger side one is fine though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ALEX 98 1 Cars Posted March 23, 2009 The sill is coming off easier than I expected, just by using a wood chisel I've separated the top edge along its spot welds under the door seal. The front bottom part of the A pillar looks like it will come off quite easy too and the bottom edge. It's the bit behind the rear quarter where It's hard to see how its welded in that I'm going to struggle with. I've started to dig out the sealant, but I'm unsure if I can remove the sill without touching the rear quarter, there's a nut for drivers seatbelt welded to the new sill So I'm not sure if it's possible to replace the whole sill, I might have to cut and shut that part. The rust is quite bad, I put a screwdriver through it last night and almost the full length has gone crispy. The passenger side one is fine though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
toddydal 1 Posted March 23, 2009 (edited) drill or gind the spotwelds for a neater job,dont just hack away with a wood chisel, get a proper bolster chisel on the job when youve drilled or ground away at the spotwelds it will be much easier,and wait until you get the new replacement sill before you cut the old one off so you know where it joins Edited March 23, 2009 by toddydal Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rom 0 Posted March 23, 2009 Ive done a few sills over the years, not on a 205 mind. Id normally use what i need, unless theres patches along the sill. A spot weld cutter will help keep it neat as said, there not overly exspensive. Try and keep the welds where they wont be seen too much. To limit the grinding / skimming needed. Not sure how big the sill is, but no point welding on the 3/4 panel unless you have to etc. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pugnut 9 1 Cars Posted March 23, 2009 I know its too late for Alex, but for everyone else its a good idea to check the slots are clear on the front and back of the their sill on the spot welded lip. You'll get a thin screwdriver up there Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ALEX 98 1 Cars Posted March 24, 2009 drill or gind the spotwelds for a neater job,dont just hack away with a wood chisel, get a proper bolster chisel on the job when youve drilled or ground away at the spotwelds it will be much easier,and wait until you get the new replacement sill before you cut the old one off so you know where it joins I have the new sill ready to go on and I'm using that as a guide on where to dig out the sealant/bonding. A mate of mine who has a spot welder is doing the welding for me, I'm just trying to gat as much of the old sill off as possible ready for him. I had a good go at it last night and dug out all the sealant/bonding inside the rear quarter that holds the sill to the chassis as there's no welds there, there's a couple of spot welds around the seat belt anchor I have to split yet, but all the other spot welds along the top have come apart easy so far with the wood chisel without damaging the mating faces. The only other welds to split now are the ones along the bottom lip but this lip is very rusty and I can see there not been much left of it once the old sill is removed, The lip (the one you use the cars sill jack on) is made up of (I think 3) edges of body panels, the outer panel been the sill. I think I'm going to have to leave the old sill lip there so we have something to weld to. Either that or I'll have to weld in a new lip. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ALEX 98 1 Cars Posted March 27, 2009 (edited) The Tw*t failed it! The old sill eventually came off, we left the bottom lip of the existing sill to weld the new one to it. There was a small plate need inside the rear arch to plate up an rusty hole near the back edge of the sill, other than that we thought it went well and was a good job. His spot welder was broken though so he had to drill holes along the outer mating faces and filled them up with weld to weld the sill on. We put more weld back than we took off and thought it looked quite neat too. The garage spotted a hole in the rear quarter, under the car where the floor pan meets the sill, It didn't look structural, and we just missed it as we don't have a ramp like the garage did, fair enough but if the p*ick of an MOT tester who obviously was upset about me not letting him do the bodge job he had planned and didn't come out with smarmy comment's like "eh your going to have to pay for another MOT now aren't you" I'd have believed him it was an MOT fail. He also said the new sill needed to be seam welded along its lower lip the full length of the sill! . Which I know is Boll*cks. I put him on the phone to my mechanic and they argued for a bit, but he still stood his ground and refused my certificate. I'm a victim of It's sour grapes, My mechanic is calling over again Thursday to weld up the hole and seal the lower edge with sealant, but I'll be taking it to a different MOT station this time though. There's one up the road I used to take it to, it's £10 dearer for a test and they are VERY VERY picky with stuff, but they seem more reasonable and don't get upset when I want to do the work myself. I was hoping to get it on the road before the month was out Edited March 27, 2009 by ALEX Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tom Fenton 1,526 Posted March 27, 2009 The seam welding bit is a difficult one, as it does state in the testers book that all repairs should be fully seam welded. However common sense says this applies more to localised patches, and not really to a panel that is being replaced as it would have been fitted originally. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
credowan 15 1 Cars Posted March 27, 2009 Really gutted for you mate at least no more cash is going to the other garage and its not bodged together and plus you probably learnt a hell of alot hope it all gets sorted soon Gary Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SurGie 54 Posted March 27, 2009 I'd report them, as the original sill isn't seam welded any how, surely it only spot welded ? Once VOSA is on their back, they'd wish they never messed you about ! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ALEX 98 1 Cars Posted March 27, 2009 The seam welding bit is a difficult one, as it does state in the testers book that all repairs should be fully seam welded. However common sense says this applies more to localised patches, and not really to a panel that is being replaced as it would have been fitted originally. Thanks for that advice, I'll mention it to my mechanic, It does make sense really, but you would have thought there would be an sub note for for full panel replacement. I'm leaving it to him to sort out now, but I think all he's going to do is plate up the hole and brush some sealant around. I've booked it in for another MOT Thursday afternoon, I told the new tester the story of what happened and he seemed reasonable on the phone. Here's the hole it failed on along with mentioned above, I'm convinced its a fail on that only but unsure if he was just trying it on, what do you think? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
richsmells 2 Posted March 29, 2009 Here's Tom's thread: http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.php?s...ll+repair\ Could someone please explain where the drainage holes are, I should check they're not blocked Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
toddydal 1 Posted March 30, 2009 that should have been fine they were spot welded from the factory and you have enough plug welds on the sill,maby you should have put a coat of stone chip over the sill before you took it back for m.o.t Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ALEX 98 1 Cars Posted March 31, 2009 (edited) that should have been fine they were spot welded from the factory and you have enough plug welds on the sill,maby you should have put a coat of stone chip over the sill before you took it back for m.o.t That's what were going to do on Thursday when its in for another MOT! I got a quote of £100 for it painting. I need it on the road first though as I'll need to drive it to the bodyshop! Edit : "Could someone please explain where the drainage holes are, I should check they're not blocked" Theres 2 or 3 nothces on the lower lip of the sill between the spot welds that provide a gap for the rain water to escape Edited March 31, 2009 by ALEX Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
joe1joe 3 Posted March 31, 2009 well i think the rules are..... if the sill is completly replaced then it only needs 2 be spot welded (like original) if u buy a sill and just fit it over the top basicaly like a patch it needs too be fully welded. and third note sealer ealy wud hav too k the eye of it! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ALEX 98 1 Cars Posted April 3, 2009 It passed ...... eventually! I had the hole welded up found by the first MOT tester, only for it to fail on another It was harder to see than the one above, but like I said this garage is Very Thorough. It only cost me another £30 to weld it up though, but they said its fine to have the panel spot welded in place, so the other garage WAS talking s*it. In total this repair including the MOTs has cost me around £400 and it still needs painting! I'm starting to loose heart in it and thinking of selling up, espacially as I've a CTi in the garage I'm planning to restore. I think I'll be WaxOiling that one though as the chasie is in better condition eventhough its 4 years older. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
