Mi16 Head Question

[si-mi16 0]

hi all, just wondering whats the best head job i can get for my money .

 

i have a standard mi16 head which has recently been skimmed and now have a futher £500 to upgrade slightly what are the best mods to do to the head guys?

[boombang 2]

What other engine mods?

 

I wouldn't bother in the slightest with headwork if you've not done anything else.

[Mark205 1]

Try him: mhtmotorsport@btconnect.com, he did a 1.9 8v for me for a good price, quality job as well.

 

Ive heard of other companies on here but ive never used them.

[welshpug 1,629]

leave the head well alone is my opinion, having seen how far they can go without being touched other than camshafts, different story altogether on induction and exhaust, and bottom end!

[dcc 855]

Gti6 head has all the work done for you tbh! would cost you £100 maybe for a decent one.

[Cameron 16]

Yeah, but what about the £800-£1000 to get it running!?

GTi6 head isn't a simple bolt-on job done mod, there's a load of other work involved.

 

As people have said, I wouldn't bother getting head work until you actually NEED it. For £500 you might be able to get an inlet cam and re-map.

[si-mi16 0]

well the car is off the road till next summer time now, im on carbs at the minute but will be getting rid of them and put jenvey bodies on with a standalone ecu to run them, was going with just the inlet cam to add to the bodies but wasn't sure regarding head work required(hence the posted topic), are the mi bottom end ok standard with the setup mentioned or should i be looking and ypgrading/replacing parts on the bottom end? always thought the bottom end of these engines were quite strong?

Edited March 17, 2009 by si-mi16

[Mark205 1]

The mi heads are pretty good as they are, i'm not sure what difference a port/polish would make, improve flow etc.

 

When i got my 8v head done i got it back like a brand new head which is better than leaving it i suppose.

 

 

Noticed i gave you the wrong email address above for the bloke i used.

 

Its mhtmotorsports@btconnect.com if you need it.

Edited March 17, 2009 by Mark205

[si-mi16 0]

thanks mark205, will send him a email and find out what he can do for me

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

Don't take this the wrong way, either Mark205 or si-Mi16, but it seems you're hooked on spending your money on something that isn't needed on an Mi head. The advice up there is from experience, and I agree with it totally.

 

I'm not saying porting and polishing is a myth, but it's simply not necessary on an Mi head, as straight from the factory they're good for 250BHP.

 

You really ought to consider using your £500 as money towards your ECU and possibly upgraded inlet cam. (Exhaust cam is fine for anything but uber power).

 

It seems the safest, tried and tested method to gain ~20-50 BHP with these engines is bodies, new inlet, ECU and mapping. 4-2-1 style exhaust may also help.

 

Of course it's your money; however it seems you're ignoring recommendations in your thread to use your money to actually get some more power, which is surely what you're after?

Edited March 18, 2009 by DrSarty

[Mark205 1]

As said in my last post DrS, the mi heads are pretty good as they are.

 

I only gave si-mi16 one place in which, (if he wanted to), he could proceed with head work.

Edited March 18, 2009 by Mark205

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

As said in my last post DrS, the mi heads are pretty good as they are.

 

I only gave si-mi16 one place in which, (if he wanted to), he could proceed with head work.

 

That's fair enough, however - and being rather blunt - I think he'd be wasting his time and money.

[welshpug 1,629]

I think I'm correct in saying that DrS's engine proves the point quite well...

 

Spend the money on the bottom end, cam('s) and a decent exhaust.

[Stu 18]

As above, the only thing id perhaps do is 3 angle valve seats, and just clean up the ports.

 

Id probably spend the £500 on a PeterT stage one setup (chip and cam) decent air filter and an exhaust system.

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

As above, the only thing id perhaps do is 3 angle valve seats, and just clean up the ports.

 

Id probably spend the £500 on a PeterT stage one setup (chip and cam) decent air filter and an exhaust system.

 

It's maybe 50/50 on the valve seats too TBH. I think PeterT said to me that it's nice but not essential.

 

Just a well cleaned and rebuilt head, with a clean (skimmed) face, clear oilways, refurbed lifters (I have video of this - it's an evening's work) and properly - sorry forgotten the phrase - seated-in valves using paste and grinding should be just fine. Peter's inlet cams are about £130 IIRC which is a bleedin' bargain, complete with offset keys to advance a no.2 pulley on the inlet and retard the exhaust a bit perhaps.

 

Remember that si-Mi16 is fitting ITBs as well so he needs a fully mappable ECU, so that £500 would pay a fair whack towards the ECU, cam, exhaust (if not already owned) and a good RR set-up.

Edited March 18, 2009 by DrSarty

[Jon_Bmw 13]

It is worth noting that some people due to regulations can't just pop on a 2.1/2.2 bottom end, so increasing capacity won't be seen as the be all and end all by some people...

 

Perhaps I am being pesemistic, but if governed that you have to stay under 2.0l, some degree of headwork is going to be required to get you over 220bhp I would have thought??

 

The easiest way does seem to be capacity change, but I don't really want to go down that route with mine due to the possibility of perhaps entering it into a few road rallies or something in the future.

[welshpug 1,629]

Perhaps I am being pesemistic, but if governed that you have to stay under 2.0l, some degree of headwork is going to be required to get you over 220bhp I would have thought??

 

not at all, I know offhand of one PSOOC member that has 211bhp from his standard Mi16 head, and a couple of others that are easily over the 200 mark with relatively little engine work at all.

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

It is worth noting that some people due to regulations can't just pop on a 2.1/2.2 bottom end, so increasing capacity won't be seen as the be all and end all by some people...

 

Perhaps I am being pesemistic, but if governed that you have to stay under 2.0l, some degree of headwork is going to be required to get you over 220bhp I would have thought??

 

The easiest way does seem to be capacity change, but I don't really want to go down that route with mine due to the possibility of perhaps entering it into a few road rallies or something in the future.

 

There's been no mention of upped capacity at all in this thread. Is this a question specifically relating to your car, your plans and the regs you must meet, rather than the topic starter? In fact there's been no mention of regs either.

 

Mentioning bottom ends I suspect was to do with them being able to handle another 40BHP, which is quite achievable with bodies, and inlet cam and mappable ECU, with - and this was my and a few other people's answer to the orginal question where one assumes 'headwork' will achieve something - absolutely no work or mods to the Mi head at all.

 

Big debates have gone on about these 16v heads, and the conclusion is they don't really need anything other than to be in good working order. There seems to be no easy, or even difficult (read: expensive) way, including big valves, to unleash something amazing from the head itself, WITHOUT having to go bonkers elsewhere.

Edited March 18, 2009 by DrSarty

[skeggyrik 3]

If it were me (and i am very biased here) i would go for a good second hand Cat Cam inlet cam then spend the rest, £310, on other stuff as mentioned

 

Note below link to a certain member selling a cat cam.....

 

http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.php?showtopic=102978

Edited March 18, 2009 by skeggyrik

[si-mi16 0]

Don't take this the wrong way, either Mark205 or si-Mi16, but it seems you're hooked on spending your money on something that isn't needed on an Mi head. The advice up there

is from experience, and I agree with it totally.

 

I'm not saying porting and polishing is a myth, but it's simply not necessary on an Mi head, as straight from the factory they're good for 250BHP.

 

You really ought to consider using your £500 as money towards your ECU and possibly upgraded inlet cam. (Exhaust cam is fine for anything but uber power).

 

It seems the safest, tried and tested method to gain ~20-50 BHP with these engines is bodies, new inlet, ECU and mapping. 4-2-1 style exhaust may also help.

 

Of course it's your money; however it seems you're ignoring recommendations in your thread to use your money to actually get some more power, which is surely what you're after?

 

drsarty, you seemed to of answered all me question in one go.thanks just wanted to see weather it would be a justified £500 spent on head work,but in actual fact after your advice plus the other guys and some research it seems the mi head flow vwry well as standard and also has large valves as standard, which leaves me as you all say, concentrate on inlet cam, bodies and ecu. thanks for eveyones help, not to interested in bhp talk, just want an out and out quick pug,with this setup i believe im heading the right way

 

 

[Jon_Bmw 13]

There's been no mention of upped capacity at all in this thread. Is this a question specifically relating to your car, your plans and the regs you must meet, rather than the topic starter? In fact there's been no mention of regs either.

 

Mentioning bottom ends I suspect was to do with them being able to handle another 40BHP, which is quite achievable with bodies, and inlet cam and mappable ECU, with - and this was my and a few other people's answer to the orginal question where one assumes 'headwork' will achieve something - absolutely no work or mods to the Mi head at all.

 

Big debates have gone on about these 16v heads, and the conclusion is they don't really need anything other than to be in good working order. There seems to be no easy, or even difficult (read: expensive) way, including big valves, to unleash something amazing from the head itself, WITHOUT having to go bonkers elsewhere.

 

Perhaps I am reading another thread...

 

Welshpug has made 2 referencs to 'work on the bottom end' citing yours as an example of why not to work on the head. Valid point by the way. Now of course he could mean to enable it to rev, the only other realistic way of making more power from the bottom end without increasing capacity as far as I am aware... Problem is a head will only take 7500rpm due to the hydrallic lifters... So he must be talking about capacity increases right?

 

Your good self also refers to the fact the head can 'manage' 250bhp, which I presume is again reference to your 2.2 bottom end build and no head work producing 240bhp on a tamish cam(by the way, I think this is a cracking result!)

 

I guess the point I was trying to make, but didn't, was how much of your extra power was due to the bottom end build, rather than the top end. What would happen if you did do some headwork (vaugest term in the world I know!)? I don't know.

 

With regards regulations, I was just giving another reason why someone might consider headwork. If you can't increase capacity, you'd probably want to make it rev, which would result in serious work with the lifters.

 

Reading that back, its still not really clear what I meant.

 

Sorry!

[Jon_Bmw 13]

not at all, I know offhand of one PSOOC member that has 211bhp from his standard Mi16 head, and a couple of others that are easily over the 200 mark with relatively little engine work at all.

 

I'm a bit thick and forgot to multiquote...

 

...So anyone over 220bhp on a standard head then? Its a genuiene question rather than being an arse I assure you!

[kyepan 291]

hi all, just wondering whats the best head job i can get for my money .

 

i have a standard mi16 head which has recently been skimmed and now have a futher £500 to upgrade slightly what are the best mods to do to the head guys?

perhaps look at petert's website, he would probably recommend slightly upping the compression.

 

a thread on here a while back ended up agreeing with him, plus having decent 3 angle valve seats cut into the head to help the low lift air flow.

 

once that's done it's best to save your pennies and as richard says, make sure the head is working properly in the first place.