Root Of All Evil Idle?

[Ricardo 0]

Been trying to get my idle sorted since September but only now decided to take the TB off to clean!! But found this in the manifold

 

Is this dirty or wot? Is this from the breather? HELP

 

 

 

 

Any advice please

Cheers

[trialster 0]

mine was like this. it didn't make a huge amount of difference after i cleaned it out.

 

have you tred taking the SAD valve off and making sure it's working.

 

Will

[Anthony 1,000]

That looks pretty normal to me for most 8v inlet manifolds I've looked in, and yes it is from the breather system as far as I can tell.

 

Clean the throttle body up properly including the passageway for the idle adjustment screw, and if you're feeling enthusiastic clean the worst of the gunk out of the manifold although it's not strictly speaking necessery in my opinion as it won't be adversely affecting the idle.

[Ricardo 0]

mine was like this. it didn't make a huge amount of difference after i cleaned it out.

 

have you tred taking the SAD valve off and making sure it's working.

 

Will

 

Cheers, Yes SAD valve off cleaned and closed almost fully leaving it in the house on the central heating rad. Also get voltage to it OK.

Things to do next after cleaning TB...

1 Carb clean the AFM tracks and air temp sensor

2 check TBS 'click' and set to haynes guide

3 fit ecu water temp sender

 

take to peugeot garage!!!!

[richsmells 2]

You've covered most of the main areas to check. Also check your ignition advance as I found adding a little advance really helped get a smooth idle, then backed off the speed using the adjustment screw. Obviously make sure it doesn't pink under load. It's been covered on here a few times.

Edited February 10, 2009 by richsmells

[ALEX 98 1 Cars]

A rough idle can be caused by messed with AFM.

Countless times I've seen the AFM setting spring fiddled with, you can usually tell if has if the plastic cover has been removed.

For some reason people assume if you tighten the spring it makes it go faster.

Usually the same people who think adding an K&N will up the power output by 20 brake!

[Ricardo 0]

The cover has been off the afm when I got the car, so I retracked the pointers last year but haven't touched the spring as I've heard so many times about the trouble it can cause (unless you know what you're doing and have a gas analyser).

Don't know why the cover has been off previously thou!

 

Want to check timing but can't get to the opening on flywheel to strobe due to all the pipes cables in the way!! It mentions in haynes that the 1.6 should be 10 deg btdc @ 900rpm! I have no idea what it is set to but it doesn't pink and pulls from low revs, vac unit works OK too.

 

Thanks for comments...

[ALEX 98 1 Cars]

An auto tuner came out to my mates house to get his 205 running long before I was clued up on these things myself.

The car wouldn't start and seemed to be flooding the engine so the tuner adjusted the spring in the AFM to get it to run.

It ran like crap and the idle was all over the place, but his excuse was "At least it runs doesn't it"

I looked into the problem and did a few checks of my own as my mate wasn't happy with the way it ran.

We checked the ECU Temp sensor with a multimeter and it read a short circuit casuing the mixture to be way out, after replacing it, it ran much better but still not perfect.

We tried to adjust the AFM back to it's original setting, we got it near, we think, but because it wasn't pre-marked we ended up having to buy another to get it running normal again.

 

The tuner was adamant that all tuners adjust the spring in the AFM, he'd done loads that way and that was a from tuner who's been in the trade for 20 years!

I read into it more (possibly from a link off here) Apparently you need more than just a gas tester to calibrate these things as they are clibrated in the factory with special equipment.

So if you can't guarantee it's not been fiddled with I'd be tempted to find an AFM that hasn't.

 

Re-tracking an AFM though is a perfectly acceptable way increasing the life of an AFM and should be the only reason the covers been removed, but adjusting the tension of the spring will cause nothing but grief IMO.

Edited February 11, 2009 by ALEX

[Ricardo 0]

Do you recon a peugeot mechi/tuner would do a proper job? They should know about the afm spring shouldn't they?

[CosKev 16]

Do you recon a peugeot mechi/tuner would do a proper job? They should know about the afm spring shouldn't they?

 

Should do if they know there pugs

 

Skip Brown is a long way from you,had mine tuned there,spot on now

 

Think he set timing to 7 degrees at idle,he also sets the TPS in the wrong position on purpose,gets rid of the kangaroo affect when driving in slow traffic

 

He sets the AFM spring on the rolling road too,the only way to do it right apparently.

[MrG 3]

we had this very same thing done to our first 1.9 years ago. Apparently it would not pass the mot due to emissions, so he 'adjusted' the afm and ever since it ran like crap, Even when I confronted him he said thats the way its done? New AFM sorted the issue and returned it to its before mot state and was fine from then on in.

 

We never went back there, he did my in laws car and I should have stuck with the people I knew, but lesson learnt that day.

 

But anyway sorry to go off topic there. WD40 as said before, my old Mini used to do this and we never went anywhere without the WD or equivalent.

On a dry day maybe give everything a check over and a clean.

Edited February 12, 2009 by MrG

[GLPoomobile 958]

He sets the AFM spring on the rolling road too,the only way to do it right apparently.

 

Yes. The spring tension dictates the fuelling across the rev range, so adjusting it may bodge a good result to get through an emissions test - which is done at lows revs and without the engine under load - but it will also effect the map under all other conditions, putting it at risk of running lean or rich. I wonder what comeback you'd have if a garage did this and then you borewashed the engine or holed a piston . Hence why it should not be adjusted without the facility to monitor emissions while the car is being run under load.

 

There is a seperate mixture screw (as most of us know) on the side of the AFM which adjust the mixture at idle only.

[Ricardo 0]

What are the base settings (turns out from fully in) for the afm mixture screw and the idle screw on the tb?

Cheers

[ALEX 98 1 Cars]

2.5 Turns out I think!

I Think it's mentined in the Haynes!

[RINRIN 1]

You set the TPS in wrong setup and the kanguru effects is gone. So strange and one who experienced this ??

 

I have the same though about setting the timing. It is easy when on rooling road.

 

Also for the AFM screw you need to have 1.5 CO at idle and over 10% co2

[Ricardo 0]

I can find the settings in haynes but not after strip down and clean of tb. Not the settings to get the car started only idle after warmed up!

Just got myself a haynes workshop manual to go with the service and repair one I already have

 

Anyone know what the 'incorrect' tps set point is to stop kangarooing?

[mhyphenl 10 1 Cars]

I seem to have a similar problem with my AFM. Lid has been off! Runs OK actually but the ECU doesn't like somthing as the light comes on and only goes off under moderate acceleration. The water temp sensor is ok and seems to idle fine, seems a little lean and I think the ECU is complaining because either the AFM or the Lambda values are outside the maps expected values, where do I start in adjusting things to stop the light coming on!

[Ricardo 0]

What are the turns out for the AFM mixture screw? It's out there ticking over getting warm....

[Ricardo 0]

Right I've had enough now

 

Will not tickover when cold...hold it on 2K for a minute then it ticks over at 700-800.

 

Everything seems to work....TPS clicks and shows open & close circuit. Connector has 13v on two outer pins. Although when tps is slackened and turned it makes no difference to idle

New ecu water temp sensor fitted.

SAD is open when cold and closes when hot.

Everything is cleaned and I've set tickover at 900-1K when warm with lights and fan on.

Drives well doesn't cut out when warm!

 

With the afm lid off you only need to touch the sweeper to make the slightest movement and the idle changes so that seems to work.

 

At a loss now...what else to check? Is it the TPS?

Please help as my mondeo set itself alight last week and that needs alternator and battery.

 

cheers

[GLPoomobile 958]

You set the TPS in wrong setup and the kanguru effects is gone. So strange and one who experienced this ??

 

I think what you are saying is that if you set the TPS so that it DOES NOT click with the throttle closed, you do not get any kangarooing. This makes sense, because I believe the ECU is set up to cut fuelling when the TPS clicks closed. This is what causes the kangarooing, it's the harsh change when the ECU cuts fuelling off and on. IIRC, the 'chipped' ECUs (such as the Superchips one and the Pug Performance one) used to overcome this by not cutting the fuelling, which in turn did increase fuel consumption slightly. I also read on here just the other day, somebody said that Skip Browns recommend setting the TPS so that it does not click closed.

 

 

Right I've had enough now

 

Will not tickover when cold...hold it on 2K for a minute then it ticks over at 700-800.

 

Everything seems to work....TPS clicks and shows open & close circuit. Connector has 13v on two outer pins. Although when tps is slackened and turned it makes no difference to idle

New ecu water temp sensor fitted.

SAD is open when cold and closes when hot.

Everything is cleaned and I've set tickover at 900-1K when warm with lights and fan on.

Drives well doesn't cut out when warm!

 

With the afm lid off you only need to touch the sweeper to make the slightest movement and the idle changes so that seems to work.

 

At a loss now...what else to check? Is it the TPS?

Please help as my mondeo set itself alight last week and that needs alternator and battery.

 

cheers

 

Ricardo, if the car essentially runs fine and you believe all the components are in good order, then I wouldn't waste time and worry so much over a minor idle speed problem. Just set the idle a little higher so it ticks over OK when cold. Of course it means it'll be higher when warm, but surely you can live with that. I was exactly the same with my first GTI, I spent far too much time buggering about with it, as in I carried a screwdriver around with me and every few days I'd be under the bonnet adjusting it. It's just a waste of time at the end of the day.

 

I had a mate years ago who was telling me that he'd had a 1.6 GTI a few years previously, which he loved, but he'd had to get rid of it as he couldn't cure the idle hunting. His dad was a mechanic and they'd tried at his garage to fix it but could never cure it 100%. He then bought a Mk2 Golf GTI instead. Seems a shame to ditch a 205 just because you can't live with a little idle problem, but his loss I guess.

Edited February 21, 2009 by GLPoomobile

[Ricardo 0]

Yep, your right!

 

Just washed all our cars and bike this afternoon and come back from town and saw the pug 'gleamin' in the drive way and said to the missus...

'you know what? . . . . I do love that car'

 

Cheers GL