Ecu, Throttle Bodies Or Carbs?

[andyjstone 5]

If I was to spend some money on performance upgrades, which produces the best bang for the buck and is there an order they should be done in?

 

Andy

[EdCherry 34 1 Cars]

Throttle Bodies and Standalone managment would be my choice if I had the money. Add a nice rebuild of your engine in, and maybe a nice cam and you'd be flying.

[welshpug 1,626]

IMO, ecu first, you'd be surprised how much better you can get then to perform and behave by controlling the ignition and injection properly on a standard lump.

[si-mi16 0]

im running standard mi16 lump with r1 bike carbs with 1.9 gti loom and dizzy adaptor. what would be the cheapest,easiest way to run stand alone ecu to control ignition,i would like a newmans inlet cam or similar also, could someone advise me on what is most recommended and prices of the mentioned.

 

Sorry to jump the thread

[pip470 61]

im running standard mi16 lump with r1 bike carbs with 1.9 gti loom and dizzy adaptor. what would be the cheapest,easiest way to run stand alone ecu to control ignition,i would like a newmans inlet cam or similar also, could someone advise me on what is most recommended and prices of the mentioned.

 

Sorry to jump the thread

 

I have a 1.8 16v on yamaha r1 carbs using mbe ignition only, Its really simple to be honest. Buy a ecu ( you may aswell buy one that can control fuel as well as spark for later upgrades) buy a loom already made up, connect it all up and then get it rolling roaded.

 

My system cost

 

£500 ecu

£150 for loom

£200 rolling road

 

It can be done a lot cheaper by yourself using either megajolt or megavolt build your own ecus.

 

As for the OP carbs vs throttle boddies have been covered loads of times on probably every forum. Welshpugs advice is probably the best as its the first step to releasing some more power from what you have at the cost of probably your fuel consumption but hey, miles per smiles I say.

 

My wild card would of coarse be nitrous as its the cheapest way to more gains. Its not always practicle for everybody needs but if you want to keep good fuel consumption and have a laugh every now and then then it might be for you.

[si-mi16 0]

whats the going rate for nos these days then? and what sort of kit dry/wet? and how much 30-50bhp shot on standard bottom end?

[Baz 421]

Naws FTMFLose.

[pip470 61]

You can buy a second hand single port wet kit for around £300, The manifold design on the peugeot engines are not very good for equal distribution and fuel drop out will be a problem if high power levels are pushed. Reaslisticly I would stick to the 25hp mark for a reliable hit of power. Theres nothing else you can do to an engine for £300-£500 to get that sort of power increase. Bottle fill ups are around £5 for a lb and the wizard of nos bottles come in 5lb and 11lb sizes. At 25hp gain they will last quite a long time in short bursts. As for the bottom end, well The gti 6 boys are pushing thier standard bottom ends from 167 to 240 so if you have the xu10j4rs thats a good indication of how much of a power increase you could have. As for the 1.6/1.9 bottom end i do not know how ever, stick with the 25hp and there should be no other problems. To put it another way, ask your self how much power would you be happy to get out of any other modifications such as cams ect.... If your happy to raise the power normally asperated on a standard bottom end then why not using nitrous. I ran 50hp at santa pod on a standard 1.8 16v engine and it was awesome, the change was phenominal. It took a full second off my best time. For the euro trip I will be taking my own advice and only using the 25hp jets as this will be plenty. Hope this helps Phill

[si-mi16 0]

sounds like fun to me, may look in to this

[SeanO'Connor 0]

Modify tyres brakes and suspension, you will drive much faster that way!

[si-mi16 0]

tyres,brakes and suspension all done,got prada spec 2's alround,306 gti-6 brakes upfront and koni springs and dampers

 

so looks like im ready for N.O.S.lol

 

only joking for now any way, got to get it on the road again first then inlet cam and lsd

[dirtdog 4]

Wouldn't you be better off spending a lump of cash on a permanent mod rather than something that runs out and needs refilling?

[si-mi16 0]

yeah agree mate, as per above post will be looking at inlet cam and lsd, one day

[unariciflocos 49 1 Cars]

im running standard mi16 lump with r1 bike carbs with 1.9 gti loom and dizzy adaptor. what would be the cheapest,easiest way to run stand alone ecu to control ignition,i would like a newmans inlet cam or similar also, could someone advise me on what is most recommended and prices of the mentioned.

 

Sorry to jump the thread

 

Cheapest way would be Megajolt. I got a quote for a complete kit with everything you need for 270 quid. I ordered a Megajolt V4 kit with a hard revlimiter from the producer for 116 USD incl P&P. Will have to solder it myself but, how hard can it be? R1 carbs already have TPS so it should be easier for you.

[ravydavy 0]

i'm still interested in if carbs or throttle bodies? is it really worth the extra money???

ive heard the gains are minimal. maybe a little better on fuel consumption but thats about it.

i'd like to hear from people that have fitted throttle bodies after say a set of twin 45's as thats what i'm running.

maybe the tuners on here would like to add something to this thread too. maybe peter t or the likes.

lets get an honest opinion whether we are wasting our hard earned cash or not...

regards david

[pip470 61]

Its not just fuel consumption, its drivability. Carbs adjust the fueling through quite a crude method with a needle jet. You can get the mixture correct at one particular amount of revs. The rest of the rev range is a comprimise. Throttle bodies however can be set up with so much more taken into consideration. Throttle position, inlet air temp, injector cycle, ignition timing set to throttle angle, some times map sensors, some times idle contol valves, excelent cold starting maps. Its pretty clear to be honest, Throttle boddies are better than carbs, but they cost more. Please note i did not say they make more power, They would more than likely make the same peaks but you may find some gains throughout the rest of the rev range with the throttle boddies. I have never fitted throttle bodies either, My experiance comes from my time spent at an engine dyno with a good set of lads. Make of that what you will.

 

Phill

[GLPoomobile 958]

i'm still interested in if carbs or throttle bodies? is it really worth the extra money???

ive heard the gains are minimal. maybe a little better on fuel consumption but thats about it.

i'd like to hear from people that have fitted throttle bodies after say a set of twin 45's as thats what i'm running.

maybe the tuners on here would like to add something to this thread too. maybe peter t or the likes.

lets get an honest opinion whether we are wasting our hard earned cash or not...

regards david

 

Not being funny, but it's something that has been discussed to death many times on here, including input from various engine builders, tuners, and those generally experienced with both set ups. So this is hardly a ground breaking topic and not likely to get the kind in-depth debate that you are hoping for.

 

I could be wrong, of course.

[fast_eddie 0]

I had probably the 3rd or 4th 309 running an mi16 in the country (just after Mr Elliots waaayy back when) and I put it straight on carbs-looking back, the only difference I could help you out with is the fact that T/B's need far less maintenance and have slightly better economy(maybe lots more on a run) due to the ecu being bespokely set up. Cant see too much gains in max power but driveability with the T/B's will be much better.

Mine still runs ok today on standard 309 ecu and dizzy adapter and made good power back in the day. If I had the money it would be T/B's everytime but carbs make a good alternative.

 

Hope this helps