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SurGie

[car_restoration] Project Shades Of Grey, A Complete Overhaul Modifica

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SurGie

Really impressed with your work surgie, Respect mate.

 

Thanks Phill, there's a lot more to come mate.

 

looking at your pics i see you have welded plates over your strut tops,is this like a mk2 escort style strut top strengthening thing,seems a good plan as i have seen a few rather domeshaped 205 strut tops on cars that have been run low and hard,and as i am going to be running coilovers on the front i think i might just do the same as the car i took them off had a bit of dome shaping going on

 

Yes, that is the main reason i wanted them, i'v also welded the servo/pedal box plate too, while i was there. The original strut tops are not the thickest steel around, the rally boys get them fitted for the same reason. I got them off ebay, the pedal box plate has to be drilled through to match your car's holes though. I elongated the pedal box holes higher and over to the right, not too much though in case the servo wont fit under the scuttle panel area, this is so the master cylinder is kept away from the cam cover. Its a good job i did because i still had to grind away the rocker cover and melted a little bit off the cam covering for the MS to get enough clearance, but not too much to go through it.

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SurGie

Here are a few sealant pictures, i used Tiger seal for the inner wings and engine bay, to try and get a little bit of the original looks. I sprayed some stonechip on the front panel for extra protection, some of it had rusted away but i rewelded it, no real need to replace it.

 

th_Sealantlookgudinnerwingpainting029_zps82197b10.jpg th_9d6613eb.jpg th_d30eccc8.jpg

 

th_dbb67750.jpg th_Sealantlookgudinnerwingpainting082_zps106e4f29.jpg th_7ceaeaf3.jpg

 

Every spot welded panel edge on the inner wings have been stitch welded then zinc primed with Tiger seal on top.

 

More to follow :)

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SurGie

Here are a few top coated inner wing pictures >

 

th_2a412557.jpg th_22931cf7.jpg th_04732797.jpg

 

th_b00b9c7a.jpg th_0c4a4478.jpg

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SurGie

Here is the engine bay top coated before parts were fitted >

 

th_205Floorreconenginebaynew033_zps441e19ba.jpg th_205Floorreconenginebaynew054_zpsb8461f36.jpg th_205Floorreconenginebaynew053_zps0d7ec15b.jpg

 

th_205Floorreconenginebaynew042_zps11b297d5.jpg th_205Floorreconenginebaynew039_zps301622ca.jpg th_205Floorreconenginebaynew038_zps50def08b.jpg

 

th_205Floorreconenginebaynew045_zpsbf1aec31.jpg th_205Floorreconenginebaynew046_zps760595b4.jpg th_205Floorreconenginebaynew029_zps10a3e64e.jpg

 

George :)

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vtifan

are the strut tops a special made plate or are they strut tops cut off another shell ? as i saw a set on ebay yesterday,did you just stitch them on or did you do a few random plug welds in the centre area too ? good plan getting loads of sealer down the inner wing joint as that seems to be a real rust hot spot and one of the very few places on the car the frenchies didnt go crazy with sealer,you are looking as well protected as a man with 3 condoms on

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SurGie

:lol:

 

They are specially made for the job, plasma cut i think. I think one company sells a full set with many other sections for the engine bay etc. What i found was leaving the original sealant on at the back/inside of the strut tops which stopped any holes burning through the thin steel strut tops when using high power, yet get good weld penetration. i had also tapered the edges of the tops for a neater look.

 

What i found where rust starts first more than any other section is around the weldings, then panel edges rather than just flat areas of steel etc.

 

You can see what i mean looking at my sub frame >

 

th_SubFrameremovalsteeringpics013_zps06281a47.jpg

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vtifan

what company mate ? thats where i have found all my rust around joins and edges and corners seem to be a good rust starting point too,after stripping all the goodies off my j plate yesterday and seeing the rust/rot on it i think my g plate is actually pretty decent,engine bay is very good except the front panel,inner wings are solid,the rear end of the j plate is just slightly better in parts though,putting new sills on g plate and cutting the lower quarters off the j plate as they are mint and mine are a wee bit rusty

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SurGie

Ive had a look on ABmotorsports website and it appears not to be there, however iv had a look through an old catalogue brochure and the sets are in there. The part number for them is ABBSK, its a complete vehicle strengthening kit, they also sell a subframe strength kit too

 

The full is isn't really what i was after, its a fast road car not a rally car.

 

Give them a bell about it to see if they still sell them, they are away a lot of the time though so be patient.

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SurGie

Update time :)

 

I think what ill do is post all the engine bay, then chassis bits of work first, then ill get to the mechanical side of things.

 

When it comes to the floor pan i first originally decided (due to laziness) to get rid of all the rust and peeling sealant but keep the good sealant on then spray the electrolux zinc primer then cover in 1k stonechip.This is what i did, but thankfully it all went a bit Pete tong :lol:.

 

Here are a few pictures of the floor before >

 

th_steeringrackcamera006_zpsf133b760.jpg th_steeringrackcamera012_zpsa62a3d35.jpg th_steeringrackcamera007_zps06e5f0a9.jpg

 

The floor pan was covered in oil either from the engine or gearbox, most probably both, it was layered on tbh. Once thoroughly cleaned and derusted, the electrolux was applied after a good key and clean, then a few coats of the 1k stonechip.

 

th_BeamNEWpaintUnderFloorPrep022_zps97c1e4c6.jpg th_BeamNEWpaintUnderFloorPrep020_zpsf68d6e21.jpg th_BeamNEWpaintUnderFloorPrep018_zpsb6be283f.jpg

 

Stonechip pics>

 

th_Welderpipespugwheellocksstonechipfloor066_zps96725fd2.jpg th_Welderpipespugwheellocksstonechipfloor062_zpsc474336d.jpg

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SurGie

Now the Pete Tong moment, this is what i found a while after by scratching the surface >

 

th_badstonechip_zps38521cfe.jpg th_stonechip_zpsc2cac20a.jpg

 

 

I had cleaned it all very well, the only possible conclusion i found was the oil covered sealant some how soaked the oil in causing this reaction, because this was fine once it was dry at the start. The rear end of the floor pan was all ok, just the front sections is where the reaction was.

 

Sooo once this happened im sure you can understand how unhappy i was with it all, not a happy bunny. I decided not to dwell on this and get up and do it all completely properly, 5 nights on and these were the results after being 60g keyed and surgically cleaned up >

 

th_CardreaderfullSteel205floor219_zpsae60da91.jpg th_CardreaderfullSteel205floor210_zps250ddaa8.jpg th_CardreaderfullSteel205floor224_zpsffadc027.jpg

 

th_CardreaderfullSteel205floor202_zpsa916e310.jpg th_CardreaderfullSteel205floor203_zps15d75e3a.jpg

 

Notice how i'd already started painting, forgot to take the pictures at first.

 

George :)

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SurGie

Here are the stages of painting the floor pan, i am thankful for the previous bad attempt due to finding a much better primer that will last a minimum of ten years. I have seen an old American car coated with this stuff and was done ten years ago, its as good as mine is today.

 

I applied 2 good coats to get good coverage of Jotun Jotamastic 87 2k epoxy boat primer using a small foam roller, i then applied the third thinned down coat, i used quality 2k thinners. The thinned down third coat seemed to give it all a more smooth looking finish.

 

th_205epoxiedfloor026_zps7d8fc9dd.jpg th_205epoxiedfloor025_zps2d8efdca.jpg th_205epoxiedfloor008_zps94d33e31.jpg

 

Here is the technical data of this Jotun 87 primer http://www.jotun.com....21.12.2011.pdf

 

Its a 2k surface tolerant (small bits of surface rust etc) epoxy paint that is as tough as old boots. I have tried to chip/scratch it off with a chisel and it still wont come off. Its used for sea boats as well as fresh water boats and bridges etc, the sea does pound the boats a lot too.

 

Here is the floor pan with two coats of Upol Raptor truck bed liner 2k paint. It says in the information that its also suitable for chassis work. I thought if it can handle the stuff truck beds get then its more than enough for the chassis floors. It says you can add 10% of the base coat, i did this so the final coat comes out better, then if the top coat ever got chipped off it wont stand out too much. It says its a tough, durable urethane coating.

 

th_Raptorfloorcovering015_zps0f5ab7b3.jpg th_Raptorfloorcovering037_zps60b0f22a.jpg

 

Here is the data sheet > http://www.u-pol.com.../RLT-TDS-US.pdf

 

 

I let the Jotun 87 flash off for two days, it says any top coat can be applied as long as it has not fully cured because then you would need to key it back and its a bugger to key well. Its best to apply wet on wet, with the summer hardener of the 87 two days was enough but some people wait one day, depends on temperatures etc.

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SurGie

Here are a few brighter/clear pictures of the primer >

 

th_Floorbasecoatpaintfinishedoff004_zps3b8f1a23.jpg th_Floorbasecoatpaintfinishedoff005_zps419180df.jpg

 

This primer is really easy to use and a good price too, its got so many solids i've been able to fill in the panel seams and gaps etc, so no need for any sealant. This primer can be applied in any thickness you require as per tech data, i know this because i made too much and half a jugs worth completely cured solid.

 

The sill area of the floor was also coated with both, where the jack goes, so hopefully these areas will last. The one thing that most likely caused the floor and chassis to rust is down to the uncaring mechanics/owners using the floors as some sort of lifting point.

 

Here is the floor pan after the final top coat, three coats was applied after the Upol Raptor had 24 hours to flash off well enough >

 

th_205Floorreconenginebaynew005_zps955d97a7.jpg th_205Floorreconenginebaynew006_zps05bf5a3b.jpg th_205Floorreconenginebaynew003_zps523b461f.jpg

 

Bet you lot are getting a bit sick of all these floor pan pictures :ph34r::lol:

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SurGie

If so, then here are a few base coat pictures i missed out on before the last lot of clear coat engine bay pictures >

 

th_205Floorreconenginebaynew019_zps5a90d3d5.jpg th_205Floorreconenginebaynew017_zpsa0913022.jpg th_205Floorreconenginebaynew018_zps5a69c135.jpg

 

Ive managed to find those windscreen rust between the spot welded panel pictures, ill post them up later on.

 

Any comments welcome :)

 

George.

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pip470

After just done all the work you have done in my garage with the car on a stand, i really im impressed as it looks like you have done this under the car, and to a standard that i can not match. I hated every minute of it.

Big respect, it looks great. You could earn good money doing a proper job like this for a living,

post-8104-0-09206100-1349158020_thumb.jpg

post-8104-0-78900400-1349158033_thumb.jpg

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SurGie

Appreciate the feedback Phill, thanks :)

 

I love your jig frame for turning the shell around, wish i had one to use for this type of work. Did you make it yourself, it looks well made. Do i spot a brake disk used for turning it round ?

 

When it comes to sorting out the floor pan, it was pure determination after the first failed attempt. With being on the floor i had the trouble with wire wheel wire sticking to me like a porcupine, then with the sore shoulders and wrists etc. I used a half empty water bottle to rest my head on. It was all down to blood, sweat and tears but well worth it with the finish i've managed to get. With this, work and everything else, i was very tired and hungry a lot of the time, having no time to myself, which affected me. At the start i hated it too, but then once i got going and saw the light at the end of the tunnel, i started to enjoy it.

 

At first, i completely removed the hard thick rust, weld a small 4 inch square hole, then went back to it and went down to bare steel. Then a week or so after, before painting i removed the surface rust that had accumulated. When comparing the floor pan that goes up to the rear seat pan section, to the complete rear floor beam area, the floor was a piece of piss. The rear has far more nooks and crannies etc, much more thick hard rust and welding to sort out.

 

If i did do this as a replacement for my job, then i would invest in a sandblasting room and massive compressor etc. I'm not sure there's much of a market for this type of restoration though.

 

Do you have a project thread, is it your Graphite grey 205 gti or 6 converted 205 gti ?

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pip470

The jig i borrowed of a mate who uses it for his hillman imp. I just added bits of metal so i could use it on my car. It has been a life saver though. The brake disk is for pinning it in position when you turn it. Its easy enough to turn by just me.

I think if i was doing it again i too would either pay someone professionally to blast it or acid dip it because im never doing that again.

This car is my euro trip car, I should really change the name of the thread now though because its moved on since then. `I wont spam your thread though with my project. I will update mine soon.

Look forward to more updates.

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SurGie

Bit of an update.

 

Now time for the rear chassis side of things, some of it looked fine but underneath the rust was there and if not removed from under the sealant it will only have got worse through the years.

 

th_c4f470a0.jpg th_d34bd6f1.jpg th_5090dadd.jpg

 

I found that this car as with others ive had, seemed to be more corrosive on the O/S than the N/S, as with others the rear fuel tank sill areas were always rotten. The 205 as a whole is one of the best of the 80's cars that have lasted well through the years, however i think the time has come where these cars are becoming more rotten, especially with the repeated wet summers we seem to be getting.

 

I looked inside the sills and the O/S was far worse than the N/S, i spent a bit of time derusting the main rust inside the sills, it was hard. My thoughts were, getting rid of most of it then convert the rust with the converter ive used before will delay the rust. The other 205's ive owned have either had a section of the outer sills rewelded or ive had to get them welded for the MOT.

 

As you can see in the pictures >

 

th_930946ba.jpg th_4532224a.jpg

 

I guess this occurrence was down to the wet splashes from the traffic on the other side of the road.

 

More to follow :)

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SurGie

These pictures show the result after the rust converter was applied. This job was done a long while ago and when time came the rust on one side started to come back. After talking to the company that supplied the converter it seemed that i didnt manage to get this side as clean as it should have been. The N/S was fine and has lasted.

 

th_547404d5.jpg th_0f101d15.jpg

 

Ive drilled a hole on the inside footwell side of these sills, then i can apply some of this cavity wax easily at the other end, which has a long pipe that gets into these sections > http://www.bilthambe...waxes/dynax-s50

 

This wax has been used on all the cavities in the inner wings, sills etc etc.

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SurGie

These are some of the before pictures of the area >

 

th_82395ec5.jpg th_d26c8511.jpg th_227baf09.jpg

 

Here are the pictures of the rear footwell to the front floor section, as you can see the rust between the spot welded panels was quite bad, i think these were taken in between derusting it all >

 

th_fe6e2143.jpg th_53aadf0f.jpg

 

Here are the pictures of the rear fuel tank sill area, very corrosive and needed welding on this side only >

 

th_29feb7e8.jpg th_801bec43.jpg

 

After a bit of cutting out and derusting etc >

 

th_a2ef93e9.jpg th_2dc11271.jpg th_573948bb.jpg

 

More to follow :)

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SurGie

After all the derusting was sorted, i etch weld through primered the panels and fitted a plate inside, this helped weld them back together due to the amount of rusted steel and drilled out spot welds etc.

 

Before the etch primer pictures >

 

th_9a287529.jpg th_14269f91.jpg

 

Weld through etch primer pictures >

 

th_89a39afc.jpg th_dfae65c0.jpg

 

More to follow :)

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SurGie

So after hiring a welder, which wasn't the best and tbh too expensive, i decided to splash out and get a proper good one, which i should have done in the first place but funds were short back then.

 

The one i bought is a British made Portamig and is known to be one of the best for the price, although i had to wait 5 weeks wait time till it was made to order and delivered > http://www.weldequip...mig-welders.htm

 

Compared to other MiG welders ive used, i really enjoyed using this one, its very good for thin steel due to its low amps etc, which helped welding this project. As time went on with more practice, my welding did improve.

 

Once this area was welded up, i left it and started another section of the project such as engine bay etc. Once the engine bay was all sorted with engine/suspension fitted, i turned the car round, then i derusted the whole of the rear chassis sections.

 

I'm off to work now, got to start at 10am today. I shall update as soon as i can, hopefully over the weekend.

 

George :)

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welshpug

Nice welder, where did you find such a rusty 205? :lol: nearly like Damir's project!

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SurGie

It came from Wirral near Liverpool, tbh its not all that bad in places compared to some ive seen. I think most untreated 205 GTI's nowadays will be around the same sort of condition if not worse, im surprised how rusty the spot welded floor pan to rear seat area was, it's not like water can easily get in there.

 

I have plans to make a work bench and other things with this welder, hopefully over this winter time. Might have a go at making a jig like the one pip470 used in future.

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SurGie

Looking through Damir's project, mines no where near that sort of submerged 205 rust damage :P

 

Here are the side's of the outer sill & rear quarter sections after a bit of derusting >

 

th_SILL_zps5a70a478.jpg th_Sillareagrillinnerwingcarloom021_zps578c4583.jpg

 

th_GTI6EngineBayRear205FloorSteelNEpoxy088_zps7c890296.jpg

 

th_GTI6EngineBayRear205FloorSteelNEpoxy023_zps9e25f89d.jpg th_GTI6EngineBayRear205FloorSteelNEpoxy024_zps7a77923e.jpg

 

Again the worse side is the O/S.

 

 

Here is the the re-plate weld sections of the area >

 

th_GTI6EngineBayRear205FloorSteelNEpoxy006_zpsf646b1e1.jpg th_SillWELDINGrearseatweldskirtfixingkit011_zps307e9e5c.jpg th_GTI6EngineBayRear205FloorSteelNEpoxy113_zps4ca92609.jpg

 

Here is the area all clean and ready for the Jotun 87 >

 

th_GTI6EngineBayRear205FloorSteelNEpoxy028_zps53a21a09.jpg th_GTI6EngineBayRear205FloorSteelNEpoxy031_zpsf9ecb85d.jpg

 

More to follow :)

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SurGie

Here is the windscreen spot welded panels with as much rust removed as possible >

 

th_INNERWINGSprimeraetcworkuptoOCT036_zps1883a939.jpg

 

Below are the rear seat areas after derusting and cutting out, at first it looked fine with the tiniest amount to then find a big load of it under the sealant >

 

th_0fcec63d.jpg th_de4234ee.jpg th_b9b40036.jpg

 

A bigger sized plate was needed on the O/S seat area, this picture was before i finished the welding. For me i find the thin metal technique the easiest way, its when you weld on then off but on again before the weld pool cools down too much.

 

th_Beamareasweldingtankareas007_zpsef1791a6.jpg

 

These plates came from a doner 205, the red doner GT from ktm_kate's project thread, i shall use a lot more body parts from this car for my GT project thats not been worked on for a while.

 

George :)

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