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thirdtimelucky

[car_upgrade] 205 Gets An Extra 2 Cylinders

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thirdtimelucky

The master cylinder and reservoir are from a 306 gti6, Ive got one from a 306 2.0 16v xsi which has the same reservoir so I presume there are others the same. It does fit well, that wasn't planed just put it in cos im going to use gti6 front brakes.

 

Just found your pm

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tagy

Nice progress Paul, be good to see it when its finished.

 

Alot of people who were on ET09 and saw George's car seem to have had the same idea :), this conversion looks like it will show how it's done. Wouldn't mind a V6 myself either!

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Bonzai

Whilst i am in awe of the v6 conversion, i disagree with previous statements. I dont think this will be the next big thing purely because its not something you can do on your driveway with your mates over a weekend like the Mi conversion.

 

What i can see is serious potential for conversion kits i.e. subframes and engine mounts pre-modified on an exchange basis.

 

And for that reason i would like discount when i come to own another 205 from whoever takes my idea and runs with it :)

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Kroged

205 v6 sound so brutal!

 

May I ask what needs to be done to the enginemounts to make the engine fit? I already know that the subframe needs some working but I'm a bit confused about the upper and lower mounts. Someone said to me that the upper one will fit and that you need to move the lower mount to make it fit? But then I read about Hilgies 205v6 and he used a upper mount from a 605v6. Sounds like there is as many solutions as 205 v6's :lol:

 

Btw sorry if all these questions is already answered and I missed them. :D

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thirdtimelucky

I think your right Ben, its never going to be as popular as a 16v conversion and its not a weekend conversion but if you had all the bespoke parts ready it could be done in a week. There's a lot of fabrication needed which takes time but it's not a hard conversion and the few who have done the conversion and released information have made the conversion easer for me and hopefully this thread will help people doing it in the future.

 

Kroget, the gearbox mount doesn't need any modifications so you use this mount as your start point and get the engine level and square by changing the top mount. With the standard top mount, the right hand side of the engine sits too high and too far back so you need to modify it to correct the position. I think Hilgie modified a 606 mount to fit and others have fabricated there's, Im starting from scratch and making a new billet mount. Ive not done the lower mount yet but if you look in the photos you'll see it sits a lot lower than the standard 205 one so ill need to weld a bracket to the bottom of the subframe.

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scottish_lion

Think I'll just wait till you're bored of yours and buy it ready-done lol. As ever, I'm in awe of your fabrication and engineering skills and I'm enjoying following progress.

 

May I ask why you didn't put the engine in the 4x4?

 

Leo :lol:

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thirdtimelucky

When I get board of it Leo ill let you know, I might even take your steel grey in part x :ph34r:

It didnt go in the 4wd because as yet the 4wd running gear wont fit on the v6 engine.

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thirdtimelucky

Update time, George and Meirion (Goliath and Welshpug) poped over last friday with some of Georges modified v6 bits for me to look at. Big thanks to Mei for making sense of my wiring loom saved me lots of time and head scratching :ph34r: George and I had a go at some subframes and got a pair of drive shafts shortened.

24072009066.jpg

 

Didnt get much done last weekend as it was my little brothers stag do.

Me, being his best man and big brother made sure he had the correct protective clothing for paint balling :lol:

 

25072009069.jpg

 

After some pointers from George, I've sussed the clutch mechanism, photos to follow.

 

The top mount turned up today.

 

mount.jpg

 

Ive got a batch of 10 being made over the next couple of weeks, and more if there's enough interest, get your orders in via pm.

 

With the usual mod of using washers to angle up the servo there is about 5mm clearance.

mount2.jpg

 

Using my other 205 as a guide with a 30mm - 40mm drop theres about 100mm ground clearance without the standard downpipes, which ill be making my own.

mount3.jpg

 

This conversion requires a hell of a lot of fabrication and is far more involved than any of the 16v conversions, Im told the wiring is no worse than a gti6 conversion but if you are planing to do this conversion you need to be familiar with a grinder and welder or have a mate that is.

 

Its all a bit tight.

mount13.jpg

mount14.jpg

mount18.jpg

mount7.jpg

mount9.jpg

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welshpug

Looking good Paul, nice to meet you and Jim, cracking workshop you have there :lol:

 

Have to say that's one of the cleanest shells I've ever seen, even if the paint is a bit dubious :ph34r:

 

As you mentioned, the wiring Isn't particularly difficult at all once you figure out how it works, basic principle is the same for most engine management systems, splitting it all down into what is permanent lives and vital wires to make it run makes it far clearer.

 

really is a case of a bunch of permanent lives, an ignition switched live fuel pump feed, earth somewhere on the transmission, and a starter motor solenoid feed and off you go, BWARP! :D

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thirdtimelucky

Bit of an up date.

Its taking a bit longer than expected, when I started the project I didnt have much work on, but now ive got too much. Im not complaining but the v6 has been a bit neglected.

 

After a suggestion from George Ive made a start on the clutch fork. The v6's clutch is hydraulic operated from factory and as you know the 205 inst. There have been a couple of solutions to this, one, convert the 205 pedal box to take a master cylinder or to make a device co convert from cable to hydraulic. Ive gone with ditching the hydraulics and going cable all the way.

The way I have done this is to make a new clutch fork and shaft so it protrudes out of the gearbox like the be3 box then I can use a lever and cable like the late be3 boxes with the pull type clutches, the hardest part was getting the box back on the engine, as the thrust bearing is clipped in to the clutch and I couldn't remove it without damaging it and a new bearing is £70 so took a bit if patience to get the fork to hook back in the bearing.

 

27072009073.jpg

27072009074.jpg

27072009075.jpg

15082009131.jpg

15082009133.jpg

15082009135.jpg

15082009139.jpg

15082009140.jpg

 

Could have brazed or silver soldered the original brass fork to some 17mm bar but Iv only got a mig and I like to to everything myself.

Ill make the lever when iv worked out the correct length.

 

For those that need one ive got a few spare top engine mounts

12082009128.jpg

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Bonzai

Good to hear your still going paul.

 

With regards to the subframe, how much do you cut out of it, and how do you go about putting strength back into it? Any before and after pics?

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thirdtimelucky
Good to hear your still going paul.

 

With regards to the subframe, how much do you cut out of it, and how do you go about putting strength back into it? Any before and after pics?

 

The subframe is going to be a right pain for most of us doing the conversion, if you keep the standard down pipes you'll need to remove a lot and weld in some heaver gauge material to put some strength in it again. Its going to look a bit of a bodge really and unless done right, will leave the subframe week where the steering rack is. Ill post some pictures next weekend of how I have done it. I plan to make a tubular one when iv got more time.

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hexhamstu

Top mounts look very nice! Maybe I should ditch the mi16 bits I have and just buy a V6 engine seeing as they are cheap as chips!

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Bonzai

Do it Stu, Do it!!!!

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[L'e$kro]
' date='Jul 16 2009, 03:49 PM' post='970836']

What about the weight of the v6 engine compared to a gti-6?

Nicolas

 

according to

http://fixrambler.com/engineweightchart.txt :

Peugeot ES9 J4 3.0L 473 (223) fully dressed, all alloy 24V, 60 deg. V6

 

473 lbs = 214 kgs

 

and according to and http://forum.405mi16.com/index.php?showtopic=1642

S16 engine with all parts on - 160 kg

 

 

about 50 kilograms of difference makes sense?

 

Nicolas

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marksorrento205

Anymore progress Paul?

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himbigchief

Ooh, how much for one of the top mounts?

 

HexhamStu, I've got 3 V6 engines sat outside the front of the house if you'd like to pop up and make an offer on one...

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hexhamstu
Ooh, how much for one of the top mounts?

 

HexhamStu, I've got 3 V6 engines sat outside the front of the house if you'd like to pop up and make an offer on one...

You putting a V6 in that 309 then? I live down in wales now so northumberland is a bit of a trek!

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james_pug

any more progress recently?

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thirdtimelucky

No progress recently James, Iv been really busy with work and other projects, work normally goes slack a month either side of Christmas so ill get it finished then. How you getting on with yours, got that subframe made yet?

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Bonzai

Dare i ask how your getting on with it Paul?

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Guest daveroberts

Please could you contact me regarding a v6 engine mount

 

thanks

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205turbo

i'll be intrested in a mount as well, put one in my cti :rolleyes:

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Sobaru'

any more progress? i'm wery interested as i'm doing the same thing and i've run into a few issues as well. regarding your top mount,dose it lower the engine and if so by how much?

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Daviewonder

Just read through from start to finish, was looking like it was going great, did it ever get finished?

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