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skeggyrik

Rear Beam Ride Height With 23mm Bars

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skeggyrik

Well Ive just spent the morning putting the freshly rebuilt rear beam back on the car, i decided the dining room was no longer the place for it. Anyway i huffed and puffed, as i was on my own, and i got it on without any real problems so I was happy. I've not fitted the shocks but i wanted to check the ride height so I stuck the 2 back wheels on and dropped it off the bricks it's been sat on for far too long.

 

My biggest concern was that I'd got the same ride height both sides. This I have no problem with. I do have an issue with how high it's now sat. I set the distance between the shock mounting points to 305mm following advice from guides and first hand reports and pics of the results.

post-8632-1177857358_thumb.jpg

 

I refer in particular to nick's recent post (link below) with dummy shock I made up.

http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.php?s...c=69085&hl=

 

post-8632-1177857453_thumb.jpg

 

I know I have got uprated 23mm bars which will be stiffer than the 309 bars on the above but I wasn't expecting the results i have ended up with. It's much higher than I wanted. I know the front is still up on bricks and can't really roll the car back and forth to get is to sit right but Ive bounced it up and down and this seems to be how it is going to sit.

post-8632-1177857501_thumb.jpg

 

post-8632-1177857518_thumb.jpg

 

Looks like I am going to have to drop another spline or 2 to get it like I want it.

Is it simpply that the 23mm bars are stiffer so i've got less sag?

Any Thoughts or Other experiences of 23mm bars and ride height.

 

Oh and then it rained! :lol:

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205turbo

i think you are right about the stiffness factor, I'm sure Anthony will confirm this as he has fitted some 24mm bars we made for JamesR, try moving it one more spline and see how it looks

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Rippthrough

Yes, you get much less sag with the 23mm bars, they are a lot stiffer than stock.

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skeggyrik

ok thanks, i presumed as much, i thought i'd stick this post up to highlight how much of differance the 23mm bars make, So hopfully others can do the job once and get it right first time.

 

I will post pics when adjusted with a measure between shock centres for futute reference.

 

In your opinions does it look like standard ride height as it is? or a little higher than that? I ask as can't remeber the last time a saw a gti that hasn't been lowered!

Edited by skeggyrik

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Guest nessie

Hi

 

I am in the process of upgrading the suspension and brakes on my 1.9 at the moment. I have fitted 23mm torsion bars and 25mm antiroll bar to the rear and this is how low mine is!! And very stiff too! I can jack the car up and measure the distance from either end of the shock if you like and give you some idea of how mine is?

 

Cheers

 

Dave

 

 

205gtiupgrade021.jpg

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skeggyrik

If you could that would be a great help. That looks about perfect, it's what i was hoping for this mornig to be honest, if a touch higher.

 

Rich

 

Edit: Nope looking again, it's how i want mine!

 

Hi

 

I am in the process of upgrading the suspension and brakes on my 1.9 at the moment. I have fitted 23mm torsion bars and 25mm antiroll bar to the rear and this is how low mine is!! And very stiff too! I can jack the car up and measure the distance from either end of the shock if you like and give you some idea of how mine is?

 

Cheers

 

Dave

205gtiupgrade021.jpg

Edited by skeggyrik

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205turbo

thats the height i'm going for :D i also have 23mm t/b and 25mm arb

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max0

id invest in some axel stands, as bricks are very brittle and crack!

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Guest nessie

I'll have a measure tommorrow........ :D

 

What are you doing with the front? I have put new shocks with Eibach pro kit springs. Bugger to fit but the ride height is spot on and great quality!! Just got to finish the brakes and see how it all drives :D

 

205gtiupgrade020.jpg

 

Dave

Edited by nessie

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sutol

I know this may sound a bit daft but when you put the car back on all four wheels there will be more weight on the back and it will be lower. Or have you allowed for this?

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skeggyrik

Answers in order

 

 

I have axle stands but as I knew the car was going to be up for while (not quite this long mind you) I wanted to give the shell or more importantly the sills a larger surface to sit on hence the bricks and slats of wood. It's sitting in the bricks different in the pictures above than it has for the last 6 months.

 

I have a set of Gaz adjustable coilovers waiting to be fitted to the front, as soon as I've finished in the front and got the subframe back on.

 

As for the weight distribution, with the front in the air, the rear is carry more weight than usual, so in effect it would be worse than it is now. not that it makes a massive difference at the angle it's at. If you don't believe me carry a heavy box upstairs with 2 people, I bet the one at the bottom is puffing more than the one at the top! :)

 

 

Rich

Edited by skeggyrik

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Anthony

The 305mm that you set it to is equivilent to about -30mm with standard 20mm torsion bars on a 309 beam. The stiffer the bars, the shorter you have to set the distance between the shock centers to give the same ride height, as the suspension will drop less when you lower it to the ground.

 

The 205 beam with 24mm bars that I built for James-R recently was set to about 285mm from memory for the equivilent of about -25/30mm drop, so for your 23mm bars you're looking at somewhere around 290mm as a good starting point :)

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skeggyrik
The 305mm that you set it to is equivilent to about -30mm with standard 20mm torsion bars on a 309 beam. The stiffer the bars, the shorter you have to set the distance between the shock centers to give the same ride height, as the suspension will drop less when you lower it to the ground.

 

The 205 beam with 24mm bars that I built for James-R recently was set to about 285mm from memory for the equivilent of about -25/30mm drop, so for your 23mm bars you're looking at somewhere around 290mm as a good starting point :D

 

Agreed, I was just surprised at how much difference the bars made.

 

When I adjust it I'm going to do it on the car, I'm not taking the beam off again as it was a bit of pain on my own. It's probably easier on the car anyway, having it fixed to something.

 

I should be able to pull the bars out with a puller arrangement from the offset washer end, then lift the training arm up before knocking it back in, they come out pretty easy as it's all freshly assembled. I think it's possible on the car, will need to drop ARB plate off passenger side to get at that one. Thinking I'm right in the above. Not a big job.

 

Thanks for the responses, fellow new 23mm torsion bar users take note, I hate doing things twice (well in most cases!) :D

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Super Josh

Yep, it's easier on the car. Did this a couple of days a go. As you say, it should come apart pretty easily as it has only just been assembled. I always put some copper grease on the splines to facilitate removal.

Just put a dummy damper back in to set the ride height and then rotate the TB until is slides home easily :D

 

 

 

Josh

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Guest nessie

Hi

 

Just measured the rear shock and it is 285mm from the middle of bolt to bolt. This gives the ride height as before which is low but not stupid low with the 23mm T bars,25mm antiroll bar and i am using AST dampers.

 

Hope this helps! :D

 

Cheers

 

Dave

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C_W
As for the weight distribution, with the front in the air, the rear is carry more weight than usual, so in effect it would be worse than it is now. not that it makes a massive difference at the angle it's at. If you don't believe me carry a heavy box upstairs with 2 people, I bet the one at the bottom is puffing more than the one at the top! :D

Rich

 

If the car hasn't rolled a few metres to settle its difficult to tell what the ride height will be. If you've just put the back wheels on and put the back on the ground I think it will be a lot higher than it would be once it's on the ground and settled.

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skeggyrik
If the car hasn't rolled a few metres to settle its difficult to tell what the ride height will be. If you've just put the back wheels on and put the back on the ground I think it will be a lot higher than it would be once it's on the ground and settled.

 

Agreed but the trouble is, as you can see, I'm not really in the position to be rolling to and fro. I've jacked each side up idependantly and dropped it down again, to try and get it too settle the best I could. I still expected it to be lower than it is, even if it "needs to find it's level" so to speak. It's not as bad as if it were the fronts i'd jacked up and then lowered without letting them settle, as the camber doesn't change as the beam lowers, as it does at the front.

 

From the previous posts I am way off at 305mm spacing for 23mm bars. I'll get it sorted. :D

 

Rich

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Anton green

I put my beam back on last week after putting Gr.A and Gr.N mountings on it and was annoyed by the fact it sat up on stilts much like your car is now, even though I realised it would drop a bit after it had rolled about. Now I have taken it around the block a few times the suspension has settled to a perfect level. Seriously, if you can bear it just leave it be until you have the front end on it and can drive it about for a day or two as you may be making unecessary work for yourself.

 

Note though my car uses normal pug torsion bars, if this hepls you to make up your decision.

 

Anton

Edited by Anton green

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James_R

Think the rear on my car drops all of 3-4mm when you let it down off the jack :)

 

all I can say is it's well worth the effort, stiff tailed 205's handle like something else.

 

I've gone for a 24/27 TB/ARB set up and 285's on the front, but will soon knock that up to 350ish I think.

 

I'll doubt check the sill to ground measurements on mine, but even with 285 front springs I was able to put the tyre in to the wing cornering :(

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Dream Weaver

I think you should maybe lower it to the ground first before a final judgement as well.

 

I did my fronts suspension last weekend and at first I wasn't convinced it had lowered it that much until I took it fro a drive and it now looks like the pic below (nice stance IMO :unsure:):

 

Before it was much higher at the front on the std setup.

 

sbckit.jpg

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Anton green

The balance point between front and rear on my 205 is quite far forward by the way, I can jack up the front and rear on my 205 at the same time by using the front sill jacking point. This seems to be about the area where you have the wooden blocks etc in your pic, so yes the rear I would expect to drop significantly when you have the front wheels on and the car is sat on the ground.

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pug_ham

Simon, the ride height looks spot on.

 

Your beam must've been set up well when it was rebuilt. :D

 

Graham.

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Dream Weaver

Cheers Graham, beam was spot on IMO :lol:

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skeggyrik

I've got lots of other stuff to do first so, I'll leave it as it is for now, when i've got the front back on I can give it a quick drive to see how it settles. Not expecting much mind you.

 

Will post back with results of the drive and settle and final result with measurements should they be needed.

 

Dreamweaver: if it looks like that when done I'll be happy.

 

Rich

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petert
Think the rear on my car drops all of 3-4mm when you let it down off the jack :(

 

all I can say is it's well worth the effort, stiff tailed 205's handle like something else.

 

I've gone for a 24/27 TB/ARB set up and 285's on the front, but will soon knock that up to 350ish I think.

 

I'll doubt check the sill to ground measurements on mine, but even with 285 front springs I was able to put the tyre in to the wing cornering :(

 

 

I've got mine set to 285mm with 23mm TB's and 26mm ARB. It's definitely low, and with 195/55/15 tyres doesn't have much clearance. I'm looking forward to trying new 350lb springs at an event on Saturday. I might even try disconnecting the front ARB.

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