Zx 16v To Zx Dakar

[welshpug 1,621]

hey peeps, planning to replace the engine in my ZX 16v (306 S16) with a 306 GTi6 unit, and of course I need to use a GTi6 ecu as well.

 

does anyone know if the wiring looms would be a plug and play job or would I need to splice the new engine loom in? or even easier would I be able to run the gti6 engine on the earlier loom and plug the ecu into the original loom?

 

or should I just rebuild the original engine

[inferno 1]

at a guess id say your looking at a complete engine loom swap, but should be fairly straight forward. the looms are nicely laid out in the zx.the only issue i can see would be with the big multiplugs, may need looms extending or plugs changing. alternatively why not try the turbo route... imo way more fun and easily match the gti6 performance!

[welshpug 1,621]

thanks for the input, not sure if I could afford to run it as a turbo though not least the conversion costs spiralling, whereas a gti6 would be effectively a bolt in job.

 

if I source one I guess I need to unlock the ecu?

 

start the car then unplug the immobiliser? but where would the immobiliser box be and what can I do if it cant be started?

[inferno 1]

i would say my zx turbo conversion was as expensive as a 205 mi16 conversion, easyer than an mi conversion due to more room for intercooler and rads ect, and its only heavy on fuel when you toe it!

 

regarding ecu unlocking, cant help with the 306 non keypads, i think they use transponders? im sure a search will bring it up though.

[VisaGTi16v 1]

There was someone on here in the general chat area or perhaps on the 306 gti 6 forum who did this. He had to borrow someones ecu briefly to unlock his due to some nonsense with the immoboliser from when the engine was removed from the donor car. I forget now, have a search

[VisaGTi16v 1]

This thread

 

http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.php?showtopic=70897

[welshpug 1,621]

ta very much

[Super Josh 4]

easyer than an mi conversion due to more room for intercooler and rads ect, and its only heavy on fuel when you toe it!

 

 

How can a turbo conversion be easier than an Mi? When you have an intercooler and a s*it load of boost pipes to accommodate?

 

A turbo will always use more fuel than a similarly powered NA car, due to the fact that you need to inject more fuel to cool the compressed charge.

 

 

Josh

[inferno 1]

How can a turbo conversion be easier than an Mi? When you have an intercooler and a s*it load of boost pipes to accommodate?

 

Josh

sure a 205 mi16 is easier than a 205 turbo...

 

but,i was refering to the zx turbo, the wiring loom on the zx are generally easyer to deal with and not corroded ect, and the boost pipes from the xm all fit in the zx nicely, after i swapped the rad from a bmw 3 series. no need to lower the rad/try to fit intercoolers ect, the intercooler sits nice in the bumper as the zx front bumper is massive.

 

trust me, the zx was simple compared to the 205 im doing now. the 309 turbo is kind of in between, easyer than a 205 imo, a 205 rad bolts in allowing easy routing of boost pipes.

[welshpug 1,621]

I agree with inferno, the condition of the mechanicals and the space in there is soo much better than a 205, but i've sourced an engine (J4RS )

 

so I just have to confirm what to do with the ecu, then unplug and remove it all.

[welshpug 1,621]

so on a 306 where do i unplug the engine loom? where it goes into the fusebox under the dash?

[pug_ham 240 3 Cars]

so on a 306 where do i unplug the engine loom? where it goes into the fusebox under the dash?

Are they not just like the ZX with a a connector on the passenger side inner wing with all the ecu wiring in the engine bay?

 

Graham.

[welshpug 1,621]

thats what I'm hoping graham, but I got the whole front end loom as well just in case I needed it

 

the 306 has 2 round srew on multiplugs on the passenger inner wing, but I cant remember what the ZX has here?!

[pug_ham 240 3 Cars]

the 306 has 2 round srew on multiplugs on the passenger inner wing, but I cant remember what the ZX has here?!

Last one I helped strip was an 8v ZX Volcane & that had just the one round screw plug connector on the passenger side inner wing for the engine wiring.

 

There might've been a second for the lighting etc but I can't remember seeing it.

 

Graham.

[welshpug 1,621]

a little update, took some pics of the loom, it goes a totally different way around the engine bay DOH!

 

 

the 306 doesnt have the washer bottle here and the loom goes straight on towards the front fog lamp, not looked any further into the wiring as yet.

 

Dropped the oil and took the sump off, and the oil pump.

Took the caps off the crank and conrod bearings starting at the flywheel end, all looked fine till I went to take No4 conrod cap off, as soon as i gave it a prod it rattled about!

 

a spun shell was what greeted me, luckily they hadnt welded themselves to the crank and they could be prised off carefully with a screwdriver.

 

 

suffice to say these pair are dead, the cap is still good to use after a clean up, and the crank appears to be salvageable by just a quick go with some fine emery paper but we'll see, if all goes to plan I can just stick a set of conrod shells in and fire her up, as soon as thats sorted its coming out ready for the 6 lump to go in when I've fitter a new belt kit.

[Malachy 0]

Just done a quick diagram in ms paint to show you the 306 cable routing

the loom comes out the driverside bulkhead through the inner iwing, under the rad/fron crossmember where it has 2 multi conectors to plug into the engine wiring loom located on the right hand side of the rad it then runs up into the engine bay fusebox.

 

[welshpug 1,621]

thatnks for that, when I removed the engine from the 306 I got all the wires in your diagram

 

what I need to know is where and which wires I need to take from the ZX, and where to stick them into which wires on the 306 engine loom!

[pug_ham 240 3 Cars]

If you've spun a shell the conrod is very likely to be scrap as well so fitting new bearings will be a waste of time as it'll just spin then again.

 

Graham.

[welshpug 1,621]

hmm, the mechanic that had a look at it for me was pretty sure it would be fine, just gonna clean them up and fit the bearing and see what the clearance is like, if its no good I'll get hold of another rod.

 

while I was at GSF earlier getting service parts for Mum'd 405 I asked about cambelt kits for the J4RS, I gave the guy the pug part number for the revised kit (0831 72) and he said they can supply that one, usually comes in a pug box and the price is £65 inc vat, and thats before any club discount.

not a massive saving over pug's £70 plus vat but everything helps.

 

Any idea what the best plan of attack would be with getting the 6 engine to work in there? use the whole 6 engine loom, or use the original sensor loom?

[pug_ham 240 3 Cars]

Just from past experiences on Mi's, spun big end & the rod was also dead. But then some also had a bent crank due to the spun big end.

 

Original sensor loom imo.

 

Graham.

[welshpug 1,621]

cool, cheers Graham, should be easier to figure out when I start stripping the engine out after trying to fix it

 

as for the crank it looks good, and it was left off very soon after I realised it was the engine itself that was knocking, obviously should have been sooner but its the first time i'd ever heard something like it!

 

but now I know that a set of shells is relatively cheap, and a regrind isnt too much if I strip it myself I may do this again as I quite enjoy it

 

done rear beams, cambelts, headgaskets and top end rebuilds, now onto bottom ends and wiring conversions

[welshpug 1,621]

another update, no wonder the British building trade has such a bad rep, I haven't worked for nearly a week because of a number of delays with materials and inspectors ETC, not good for my wallet either

 

on a lighter note I managed to pick up an O.E timing belt kit off ebay for £38.99 delivered brand new in a pug box, so I fitted it on Friday

 

 

Today I stripped down the front end of the ZX and alleviated it of its bumper, front panel, Radiator and fan.

 

access is much easier now and there were no seized/snapped bolts

 

also started unpicking the insulation tape off the gti6 loom, its all pretty straighforward-ish

 

 

then I had a look at the ZX loom as i was readying the engine for removal, and its totally different

it unplugged in a similar way.

 

 

I guess now I may need some assistance/guiding lights!

 

I know I need to retain the ZX wiring so those connectors pictured will be back onto the new engine, but what do I do about the wires from that plug that go to the ecu??

[welshpug 1,621]

a few days after the last post the engine was installed and wired up, but I didnt have a cat or a suitable radiator.

 

thanks to "allpraisethegti" for the parts that arrived last week, cat was fitted today along with a new oil filter and fresh oul, and some water, unfortunately the bloody bleed screw snapped in the thermostat housing so I have a leak

 

 

 

flicked the key and It fired up

 

then I came upon one problem, I turned the key to switch the motor off, and nothing happened it ran for 15 seconds before cutting out so obviously I still have spark witrh the ignition off, what could this be????

 

I also need to figure out where the Lambda feed needs to be taken from, I know it needs to be a switched live.

[VisaGTi16v 1]

What was the conclusion with your wiring issue in your 2nd last post?

 

I had a red 16v for about 2.5 years. Sadly put it in the tyre wall at Goodwood on a sprint but it was much better to drive after that as it half crushed the pas pipe which gave it much better steering heh.

 

I always look out for Dakar's, there is one on ebay.fr at the moment and there was a glorious metallic blue one a while back (not sold here in that colour). There have been a couple of ebay recently, just S16 ones but my Xsara VTS may be written off soon if the insurance claim is ever sorted out so I have th engine from that, nudge nudge heh

 

Which exhaust manifold did you use? The GTi6 spagetti one or the original zx one?

[welshpug 1,621]

the original ZX manifold doesnt fit the 6 head, and is a lesser flowing example so I had no reason to re-use it, all I had to do was use a VTS/GTi6 cat and bolt it to the original centre box.

 

wiring issue I havent got to the bottom of but it is fixed...

 

all completed now pretty much, just a few odds and ends here and there (like the dash lighting I forgot al about, I can only see above 60 mph in the dark...)

 

the last piece of the project is to source the r/h front wheelarch trim and source another bumper, wheelarch trim went M.IA, after it came loose, and the bumper has a crack that was there when I bought the car.

 

suffice to say that zx 16v's dont come along that often so trying to find one being broken with good bodywork is a hard task

 

 

 

 

p.s, its bloody quick from the back lane 2nd gear tests....