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205freak

What Manifold/exhaust System On 1.6

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205freak

:P Hello i would like to know what's the best manifold(brand) 4-2-1 or 4-1/exhaust system to gain bhp???

The only company that confirms gains of bhp it's Supersprint, with a gain of 15bhp!!!!

What do you advise???? :huh:

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Jonmurgie

To be honest there are only about 2 or 3 options when it comes to an exhaust for the 205 GTi:

 

1. Standard - it really is a very good system

2. Peugeot Sport GrpN - as good as standard but a little bigger in diameter and gives a throaty sound

3. Full Magnex Manifold and system - in a back to back test years ago this was the only aftermarket system that didn't harm the BHP and did give a few BHP more, only about 5 though

 

IMO Supersprint are lying when they say a 15bhp increase, it's just never going to happen on a 205 GTi with just an exhaust!

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205freak

Jonmurgie on supersprint website they announce a gain of 15 bhp with full system(manifold and exhaust system), i don't think they're lying!!!! anyway in your opinion Magnex it's the best choice, how much will it cost me and where can i buy the stainless steel system including manifold????

 

Another question what's the best configuration for the manifold 4-2-1 or 4-1 :huh:

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hengti
Jonmurgie on supersprint website they announce a gain of 15 bhp with full system(manifold and exhaust system), i don't think they're lying!!!! anyway in your opinion Magnex it's the best choice, how much will it cost me and where can i buy the stainless steel system including manifold????

 

Another question what's the best configuration for the manifold 4-2-1 or 4-1 :huh:

 

 

 

Jon's right imo - there aren't many manifolds out there and the only one which seems to have been shown to offer any improvement is the Magnex one. They're outrageously expensive new - about £180-£190. Not sure how expensive system is - you're probably looking at another £220ish

 

Group N system is much cheaper but isn't stainless

 

Better off trying to find second hand - guess your location makes things difficult though

 

I looked into replacing my magnex manifold recently - cheapest place I could find was 'Scarborough Racing Developments'

 

Hope that helps

 

PS. There's just *no way* supersprints' claims are accurate

PPS. There is nothing to be gained from changing the system on its own - the power gains come from the manifold change only

Edited by hengti

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slider2

there is also the omp group n system which i have. tbh i dont know if it produces any more power, but it certainly doesent lose any- and it sounds awesome.

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Jonmurgie
Jonmurgie on supersprint website they announce a gain of 15 bhp with full system(manifold and exhaust system), i don't think they're lying!!!!

 

Interesting, their site seems to say that you gain nothing fitting their system:

 

http://www.supersprint.com/a_prodotti.asp?modello=peu2056

 

I would eat my MoTeC if you fitted their system and you gained 15bhp, I also can't see on their site where you are getting this 15bhp increase?! :huh:

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Guest abmotorsport

The vast ammounts of manifolds and systems we have fitted in years gone by the only manifold we can honestly say gives a mid to high range advantage is the 4-2-1 manifold developed on Longmans dyno made by Maniflow. Maniflow should not be selling this other than through Longmans but we know they do.

 

All the dyno runs we have done with manifolds the magnex one has never given more than 1-3 bhp over standard and are a pain to fit, thats not to say dont buy one just there are manifolds that do a better job.

 

GP N system is the cheapest retro fit but does not fit all aftermarket downpipes, it is designed to fit the genuine peugeot downpipe, not so much of a problem if you have a Powerflow dealer close buy they shopuld be able to make you an adapter for approx £20. Just a good quality 2" system is all you need for a 1.6, the more silencers the quieter it is.

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hodgy

super sprints do add 15bho...........

but thats them testing it on something like a SKYLINE GTR or a IMPREZA TURBO so yhey say it gives the same power gain to every car,

 

magnex are good value for money as i was going to buy a system but an OMP group N came up cheap so i bought that

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jaredboy

So would the magnex or maniflow manifold also fit a 309 gti?

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veloce200

Supersprint do not claim 15hp - they dyno'd a std 1.9 at 114hp and then with the system it gave 122 - 8 hp increase. This is more believable, especially as they may have tested later type back box which on the car I'm working on now is not straight through type.

Edited by veloce200

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PumaRacing
Jonmurgie on supersprint website they announce a gain of 15 bhp with full system(manifold and exhaust system), i don't think they're lying!!!! anyway in your opinion Magnex it's the best choice, how much will it cost me and where can i buy the stainless steel system including manifold????

 

Another question what's the best configuration for the manifold 4-2-1 or 4-1 :blink:

 

Yes they're lying. The standard Peugeot system is just about perfect for the standard engine and nothing on god's green earth is going to give much more power because the standard system isn't restrictive. In a magazine test many years ago on a 1.9 gti with some 8 or so aftermarket performance exhaust systems every single one reduced power compared to the standard system. You believe what you like though and throw your money away as you see fit.

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Jonmurgie

Where's that info from then?

Edited by Jonmurgie

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RobMGti

Do what i did. Keep your existing backbox then go to your local Powerflow and get them to machine u a single pipe from the bottom of your downpipe to your backbox. You can have the bore you want (i copied the Group N system) and its cheap and of a good standard. The standard backbox doesnt seem to burn out meaning the system should last a while.

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veloce200

Well the systems vary. Any of you remember the car DW dynoed that had a "race" spec engine on bodies and only gave 132HP? Well I've been rebuilding his rear beam and setting up the car for this season and when the exhaust was off I noticed the back box was not a straight through design. It's not OE (Walker is the make) but from what I can tell it is one of those horrible perforated tube designs. Gas has to escape through holes in one pipe and then make it's way back through holes in another. I'm sure that PumaRacing would agree that excess back pressure on a exhaust box like this wouldn't affect the original engine much but when you put a lot of valve overlap and higher compression perhaps this is the main culprit for this engines woeful power? D Vizard discusses this in his A-Series book. I think we are all agreed the OE manifold and system is good but these aftermarket parts vary considerably in their design. We already know the downpipe split is often not replicated correctly on aftermarket parts.

 

I have an early 1.9 with the early sleeve type system - it is a LOT noisier than this customers car - the systems look outwardly similar but the early ones seem to use straight through centre and rear boxes. Has anyone cut open a later type rear box to see the internals?

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Jonmurgie
Yes they're lying. The standard Peugeot system is just about perfect for the standard engine and nothing on god's green earth is going to give much more power because the standard system isn't restrictive. In a magazine test many years ago on a 1.9 gti with some 8 or so aftermarket performance exhaust systems every single one reduced power compared to the standard system. You believe what you like though and throw your money away as you see fit.

 

I thought it was that article that did show a very slight improvement with the Magnex Manifold & System?

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RobMGti

Wow that post came out toally wrong, silly quote thing not working.

 

I to thought that article showed a slight improvement for the Magnex system, fairly sure this has been discussed before.

Edited by RobMGti

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pug_ham
In a magazine test many years ago on a 1.9 gti with some 8 or so aftermarket performance exhaust systems every single one reduced power compared to the standard system.
I thought it was that article that did show a very slight improvement with the Magnex Manifold & System?
Where's that info from then?

I guess its from the old Max Power test, I have it scanned in somewhere. I'll upload it & post the links to it when I find it.

 

The Magnex was the only system that showed an increase over the system fitted to their Pug but that wasn't a brand new system & might not have been totally oe spec as thje car was a few years old. Comparing like for like (both new) might've show less of a difference.

 

Graham.

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hengti

Think I've got that Max-P article somewhere too - in one of the very first issues wasn't it?

 

It's got me thinking anyway, so I'll dig it out later

Give me a holler if you can't find yours

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hengti

apols to Pugtorque for jumping in - couldn't resist a little trip down memory lane - in the loft with my old MPs!

 

seem to have about the first dozen issues - issue 1 still with baseball cap and everything!! I didn't even take it out of the packaging - *obviously* ... (is it worth anything? ... suspect not ...)

 

These date back to mid 1993 - there's loads on 205s

 

Interesting to see what else was going on - there's a certain young Vicky Butler Henderson on the staff - good to see she that moved on (and 'up'!)

 

Any-who : exhausts :

 

issue 1 had a test of 7 systems (no manifolds): standard-ansa-team hartwell (whatever happened to them?)-janspeed-jetex-piper-sebring

*none* of them produced more power or torque than the std system - some actually gave away (small amounts) of power/torque

 

issue 9 has a test of the magnex system and manifold. There is no differentiation between the merits of the manifold or system in isolation (ie. they were tested as a unit) - results show improvements in power throughout the rev range, peaking at an extra 7bhp at 5000rpm.

 

make what you will

 

 

sure people will be interested in reading the scanned article

on that subject - whatever happened to the database of articles that someone here was putting together?

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PumaRacing
Well the systems vary. Any of you remember the car DW dynoed that had a "race" spec engine on bodies and only gave 132HP?

 

I do indeed and if you re-read the thread

 

http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.php?showtopic=48313

 

you'll see I predicted that the problem lay in the exhaust system and that far from showing up "cowboy engine builders" as DW was ranting about in his magazine article it actually revealed his own shortcomings in diagnosis.

 

If I can predict it without seeing or having any knowledge of the car how come he couldn't after spending a day and god knows how much customer money buggering about with it on the rollers?

 

Well I've been rebuilding his rear beam and setting up the car for this season and when the exhaust was off I noticed the back box was not a straight through design. It's not OE (Walker is the make) but from what I can tell it is one of those horrible perforated tube designs. Gas has to escape through holes in one pipe and then make it's way back through holes in another. I'm sure that PumaRacing would agree that excess back pressure on a exhaust box like this wouldn't affect the original engine much but when you put a lot of valve overlap and higher compression perhaps this is the main culprit for this engines woeful power? D Vizard discusses this in his A-Series book. I think we are all agreed the OE manifold and system is good but these aftermarket parts vary considerably in their design. We already know the downpipe split is often not replicated correctly on aftermarket parts.

 

I have an early 1.9 with the early sleeve type system - it is a LOT noisier than this customers car - the systems look outwardly similar but the early ones seem to use straight through centre and rear boxes. Has anyone cut open a later type rear box to see the internals?

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205freak

sorry my mistake, i missread :) the article shown by Supersprint!!!! So how many bhp i can get by putting a manifold 4-2-1 and a grN exhaust system by OMP!!!!

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PumaRacing
sorry my mistake, i missread :) the article shown by Supersprint!!!! So how many bhp i can get by putting a manifold 4-2-1 and a grN exhaust system by OMP!!!!

 

Have you actually taken a blind bit of notice of anything that's been said to you in this thread?

Edited by pugtorque

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pug_ham

Max Power article scans;

Page 1

Page 2

page 3

page 4

 

I don't think I've got all the pages there but the one thats missing had no text iirc.

 

Graham.

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Hilgie
So how many bhp i can get by putting a manifold 4-2-1 and a grN exhaust system by OMP!!!!

 

none.

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madaxgt

Interesting reading...

 

I recently bought a arvin exhaust system for my girlfriends car, a late model design. It came with the correct downpipe (split down the centre) and a backbox with a perforated tube all the way to near the back of the box then the pipe out of the box was offset from the perforated tube inside. I was a bit miffed by this as I believed the peugeot system was straight through and thought the Arvin one was meant to be an exact copy.

 

Am I wrong on this??

 

More to the point we were expecting a slight increase in performance compared to the bosal system (no split in d/pipe) we took off but noticed none it even seems slightly less. We even went to the bother of measuring it for a laugh starting from 1500revs in 3rd at a set point on a road up to 6k revs and the times were virtually identical with the new system being a few tenths slower. Not precise I know but overall performance seems no better and I thought 3rd gear would be long enough to show any improvements in the power/torque curve even by stopwatch standards. Also puma racing and others mention huge chunks of missing torque/power by having no split and I have seen no real difference on this well running/maintained car.

 

Has anyone bought a late model exhaust system recently and did it have straight through back box??

Edited by madaxgt

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