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hcmini1989

Aftermarket ecu coil advice

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hcmini1989

Hi all

 

Currently converting my 205 xu10(s16) to run on a speeduino ecu

 

I have been looking up lots of options for coils. I'd like to steer away from the standard ",dumb" coils and ignitor etc

 

I'm trying to keep on a budget and reasonably neat my fabrications skills are not the best so mounting them may be an issue.

 

I have checked lots of threads and some suggest LS coils, XU16v wasted spark coil (from 306 1.8) 

 

My issue is the LS coils are a little pricey and seem to come in 8s. I'll need a plug kit as well

 

Does anyone have any images of the 306 16v wasted spark coil on an mi16 just the ones I.have seen all come with the plastic surround so not sure if it will fit and then I think I'll struggle for a plug for this to wire into the aftermarket loom

 

The other options are the vw R8 smart coils seem reasonably cheap and I can grab an engine loom from a scrapper reasonably cheap as they seem the same accross the VW range. Has anyone used the R8 coils on an Mi/Xu10 if so again any images 

 

Thanks for any help I'll keep checking buld threads but seem to be alot of dead picture links :(

 

Open to.any other suggestions 

 

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Thijs_Rallye

The 306 16v (S16 and GTi6) had COP's and if I remember correctly they were fired in wasted spark mode on the S16 and sequential on the GTI6. The S16 COP connector is a 3 pin junior power timer, aka the AMP / Bosch connector. The GTi6 one a two pin junior power timer. 

image.png.78cc1106fb356dcb95ce8cf393dcbdb7.png

image.png.df8fd85e943117f086e2ce08d504ee57.png

Afaik the VAG coils are pretty reliable nowadays, they use a 4 pin FEP connector and uses the same internal pins as a junior power timer.

image.png.2120243cb5c8d674d1deabb3596292f7.png

 

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SRDT

The XU10J4 is wired to fire each coil individually and has a cam sensor so normal operation must be sequential.

I wonder if there is a pencil coil that can fit under the XU9J4 cover but obviously that's not a problem with the XU10J4.

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petert

XU10J4 are definitely full sequential/direct fire. Here's the wiring diagram of the four coils and the two, dual channel ignitors 1105A and 1105B. What about considering GTR R35 coils? They're very popular now. At least with the XU10J4 cam cover you'd have some chance of bolting them down.

XU10J4 coils ecu ignitors.jpg

Edited by petert
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Spesh

I'm running speeduino on a xu10j4rs using vag coil on plugs, they fit fine are pretty cheap and readily available.  The stock cover fits over them too

 

 

51830073336_64d0d1f466_b.jpgIMG_20220102_151814 by Mark Needs, on Flickr

Edited by Spesh
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Spesh

just as an addition, these are the 2.0 coils (the r8 are the same length), there are shorter ones available but they do not fit.

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Wesh

Hii brothers .im try to put the gti6 ecu and loom into the xu10j head /s16 with 3 pin coils .any one can help about the rfy xu10j4 coils pinout . Thanks 

 

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welshpug

They are shown above in PeterT's post.

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wicked
On 12/27/2022 at 7:14 PM, Spesh said:

just as an addition, these are the 2.0 coils (the r8 are the same length), there are shorter ones available but they do not fit.

Do you have the exact type number and pinning? There seem to be multiple version, but I'm not sure which one are the true R8 ones. 

Edited by wicked

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Wesh

Part number BAE700AK they have 3 pins for each coil and I'm fitting the gti6 loom it have just 2 pins for the coil plug 

.thaks for your respond .wesam 

 

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Spesh

07K905715F

 

I've connected both grounds together and bolted them to the cam carrier using one of the bolt holes for the original pack, neither ground needs to go back to the ECU.  +12v via an ignition relay and then the +5v from the ecu to trigger it.

 

1.6ms running dwell, 2.4ms cranking dwell.  Careful of longer Dwell as these pull quite a bit of current.  at 1.6ms they are pulling 8amp and at 2.4ms around 14amp.   I wouldn't recommend running dwell beyond 1.8ms (10a) as they will cook themselves fairly quickly

 

thumb.jpg

Edited by Spesh

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Spesh
12 hours ago, Wesh said:

Part number BAE700AK they have 3 pins for each coil and I'm fitting the gti6 loom it have just 2 pins for the coil plug 

.thaks for your respond .wesam 

 

Not sure they will work with the stock system?

 

Pin 1: VB from relay
Pin 2: Ground chassis
Pin 3: From EFI
The female AMP connectors are available on RS

Pinout BAE700AK.jpg

Edited by Spesh

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Spesh
On 12/22/2022 at 2:18 PM, hcmini1989 said:

Hi all

 

Currently converting my 205 xu10(s16) to run on a speeduino ecu

 

I have been looking up lots of options for coils. I'd like to steer away from the standard ",dumb" coils and ignitor etc

 

I'm trying to keep on a budget and reasonably neat my fabrications skills are not the best so mounting them may be an issue.

 

I have checked lots of threads and some suggest LS coils, XU16v wasted spark coil (from 306 1.8) 

 

My issue is the LS coils are a little pricey and seem to come in 8s. I'll need a plug kit as well

 

Does anyone have any images of the 306 16v wasted spark coil on an mi16 just the ones I.have seen all come with the plastic surround so not sure if it will fit and then I think I'll struggle for a plug for this to wire into the aftermarket loom

 

The other options are the vw R8 smart coils seem reasonably cheap and I can grab an engine loom from a scrapper reasonably cheap as they seem the same accross the VW range. Has anyone used the R8 coils on an Mi/Xu10 if so again any images 

 

Thanks for any help I'll keep checking buld threads but seem to be alot of dead picture links :(

 

Open to.any other suggestions 

 

https://speeduino.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5062

 

Might be of use to you, I run mine on speeduino.

 

 

Biggest thing to watch out for with vag cops is the value of R25,R27,R31 and R32 on the board.  More info on my thread linked above.

Edited by Spesh

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mmt

What are the benefits of coil on plug? 
 

im running this setup with no problems + it’s cheap. 

D30A3539-BFA4-47D9-A8F4-2CC8B10FA311.jpeg

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Wesh

 

 

20230402_220516.jpg

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Wesh

Matt .r you work with the stock rfs ecu and loom .its going to be great idea  for me. I'm think  that the s16 coils not going to work with the rfs ecu .my final plan is to fit the r8 coils . Thanks all

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wicked
On 4/5/2023 at 8:46 PM, mmt said:

What are the benefits of coil on plug? 

Higher voltage/more energy on the spark plug an thus better spark... 

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mmt
2 hours ago, wicked said:

Higher voltage/more energy on the spark plug an thus better spark... 

Thanks. Is it an upgrade worth doing - from a pure performance point of view? 

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Spesh

Probably not if your running fine.

 

I used them on my build because I had a set sat in my drawer

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petert

Coil on plugs have come a long way in recent years, eg R35, which you can buy different length stems for. Mostly negating the need for CDI's.

 

 

 

Edited by petert

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andy0075
On 4/7/2023 at 4:01 PM, mmt said:

Thanks. Is it an upgrade worth doing - from a pure performance point of view? 

No :-)

 

More Spark = More power? Dyno tested - YouTube

 

this guy is incredible. he tests everything on his Toyota 4AGE engine.

 

Different cams, itb's stuff,....

Edited by andy0075
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wicked
On 4/7/2023 at 4:01 PM, mmt said:

Thanks. Is it an upgrade worth doing - from a pure performance point of view? 

It depends...  

If you run high boost and the engine is knock-sensitive, you might benefit. 

The better spark in itself does not result in more power, but the ignition gets more precise and allows you to run better/sharper ignition angles, which could yield in more power.

If you just swap them and already have proper running engine, it won't make much difference as shown in the video on the Toyota.

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Spesh

Just came across this on my laptop, might be useful for the long tfsi/r8 coil packs

tfsi dwell.png

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