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brumster

Conversion to DBW (Drive-by-wire) on Jenveys

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brumster

So here's a question for you. I'm converting to a DBW setup on the Pug, which runs the typical Jenvey throttle bodies on a cable linkage at the moment.

 

Jenvey do a DBW servo setup at a scary looking price and the tight-arse in me looks at it and says "All production cars these days are running DBW setups, there must be a cheap off-the-shelf OEM option I can implement". Now I appreciate most production cars are on a single throttle body so many have the TPS and servo built into the throttle body itself, and this won't suit my application, but I just wonder if anyone is aware of anything out there that could suit this purpose?

 

This is the Jenvey ETA, you can see how it bolts underneath your TBs and actions onto your existing linkage. I can't imagine many production cars having anything like this.

 

eta2.jpg

I was thinking more like something that could operate on the butterfly spindle on the end of the TB, obviously via some bracketry to hold it on there. I wonder whether it's a case of just buying an OEM throttle body with integrated servo and just cutting it apart :-/

 

I will also need a pedal potentiometer, a pedal position sensor basically, this I think I can rob a little easier from any number of production cars but does anyone know of something that happens to fit into a 205 easily; not necessarily retaining the existing pedal mechanism, but something that at least isn't a floor-mounted pedal but and underslung-type.

 

Anyhoo, I guess the question is - anyone been there, done that, got the T-shirt :D ?

 

edit update: Ooo, bit of googling, found a Vauxhall Vectra/Calibra V6 throttle servo that on the face of it looks semi-doable if I was to machine off the throttle butterfly housing (keeping the bottom two holes for bracketry mounting) and use the arm as the actuator.... might be worth an investigation...

Vauxhall-Cavalier-Calibra-25-V6-Traction

 

Edited by brumster

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SRDT

The first Peugeot with a pedal sensor had it on the engine compartment so it was a drive-by-cable-then-by-wire setup. That should be the less invasive way to do it.

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brumster
1 hour ago, SRDT said:

The first Peugeot with a pedal sensor had it on the engine compartment so it was a drive-by-cable-then-by-wire setup. That should be the less invasive way to do it.

That could be an interesting approach - what model was that?

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SRDT

Early 2.0 HDI, also 605 2.1/2.5 diesel with electronic pump but this one is bigger and need a bracket for the cable.

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Type-R

BMW S54 is what you need to look at.

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welshpug

berlingo/partner hdi, 206, quite a few others used the cable to electronic adapter, probably the same part.

Edited by welshpug

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brumster
14 hours ago, Type-R said:

BMW S54 is what you need to look at.

You are spot on, Emerald did eventually get back to me with this suggestion of the E46 M3 throttle body - the only problem is, brand new they're more than the aftermarket solutions from the likes of Jenvey or AT Power :huh::lol: !!

Ok, second hand they're a bit cheaper but of course it's finding/taking the risk on a good one... I'll keep an eye open, see if I can find one at a sensible price. There's one on eBay but it's £350 and given the risk/importance of this working, if I had 350 to blow on a second-hand actuator I'd find the extra 150 quid to just get a brand new, competition-ready Jenvey one that just bolted straight up and job done :)

 

Good suggestion though, thanks

 

2 hours ago, welshpug said:

berlingo/partner hdi, 206, quite a few others used the cable to electronic adapter, probably the same part.

Yeah, I found it from SRDT's suggestion, I've got one on order... seems it's used across a whole load of cars as you say...

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allanallen

Had a new gearbox then Dan? :D

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SRDT

The S54 actuator is overkill for only 4 throttle bodies but regular actuators should have a hard time with too many return springs.

Is there any actuator that is at least easy to refurbish?

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brumster
10 hours ago, welshpug said:

Bar-gain :P ! Looks to be 2-wire? Hard to tell, but guessing it has no positional feedback; not the end of the world but I believe most systems have at least 2 positional feedback sensors, presumably for safety/redundancy... I'll have a think.

 

I've ordered a Calibra one off ebay for now just to see what's doable with it, see if I could make it work, before I spend the 'big' bucks...

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welshpug

I think they have a separate position sensor

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brumster

Joy of joys, the Calibra servo turned up. It checks out on the multimeter so I've worked out the pins - 2 motor drive pins and a 3-pin position output (simple potentiometer).

 

I'm waiting on the ECU to be upgraded and returned and to be fair the car isn't in a state to connect it up and test it anyway, so I'll probably knock up a little Arduino driver circuit one night just to test the motor in terms of strength and responsiveness. But it certainly looks doable with a bit of bracket fettling, and far more cost effective than other options. I guess we'll see :-/ maybe it won't have the torque to operate the throttle as SRDT suggested.

 

edit: Nyeeerrrmm, I'm not so sure now. Checking documentation I'm not so sure this is actually the throttle on a V6 Vauxhall more than just an open/closed valve that is used to cut power as part of the traction control system. The valve doesn't seem to be positional, I can't seem to drive it; I'm thinking it's maybe just a simple "shut on signal" style valve which would explain the two wires. I'll rub my chin a bit and see if something magical happens :wacko:

Edited by brumster

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SRDT

When throttle position need to be monitored closely the potentiometer is usually doubled. One track goes from closed to open and another one is only for small openings.

Both goes from 0V to +5V so the small one is much more precise.

 

As for excess torque even if the motor is up to the task the gears will wear faster. Some actuators have repair kits, that's probably better than one thay is more reliable but sealed.

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welshpug

the s62 item has the kits listed on ebay, the pieburg body looks the same as the S54

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Tom Fenton

The S85 V10 engine actuator looks very very similar to the Jenvey one, however they aren't renowned for reliability as the gears inside wear out. They are also expensive even second hand.

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brumster

Yep, exactly. I am wondering whether I just rely on my heel-and-toe technique for now rather than waste my money. I'm thinking I might put all the wiring in place to easily retrofit in the future, but for now remain "manual" on the pedals. There was a suggestion to use one of these solenoid-style blippers instead, that 'kicks' the cable throttle to rev on the downshift, but they don't seem massively cheaper than what we're discussing and it's a bit "halfway house"....

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Tom Fenton

I’m not sure the added complexity and possible failure modes are really balanced out by anything that’s going to give you that much of an advantage?

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