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Telf

Tank and breather hoses location

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Telf

My fuel issue is still in going . I'm fairly sure it's a vapour issue. I'm not sure but have decided to drop the tank and check the breather hoses for condition/correct fitment.

 

Does anybody happen to have any diagrams/schematics/pictures of the hoses . Any part numbers also appreciated as I think I'm going to replace everything.

 

 

Also should the tank pressurise? I seem to think it used to hiss when I removed the fuel cap but it doesn't anymore?

 

Ta

 

Paul

Edited by Telf

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PhilNW

http://www.miamistu.co.uk/pug/GB/205N/1/15C07A.HTM

 

From recollection there are 2 vents from the tank top, a 12? mm rubber pipe and a 6? mm plastic pipe 

 

Not sure it should pressurise there should be enough venting to allow air in as petrol is used

Edited by PhilNW

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Telf

Think so. I can only think I've got a split or crack . Think I'll have to replace it all. Thanks for the diagram

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PhilNW

Just a thought - item 2 on the diagram I think is a 1 way valve, have you tried sucking and blowing through it?

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Tom Fenton

Have you made sure item 4 is fitted properly to the car?

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Telf

Dropped the tank and made sure the breathers are secure. Also connected a smoke generator and pushed smoke through the small plastic hose and the larger one. Smoke vents after the filter and the large pipe doesnt leak. Reconnected everything and fed smoke into the big breather pipe in the wheel arch. No leaks.

 

 

Drove it. My mate who owns the garage I used today came for a drive. He reckons there is the odd whiff of fuel but in his words 'its an old car they all smell a bit'

 

To me it's still not right . Dunno what to try now.

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Telf

I've checked all the hoses. They are all new anyway and the steel hoses are new. No leaks. Grasping at straws maybe a injector leak? But I'd expect to see some residue or something?

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PhilNW

So no smoke around the filler neck/cap or the pipe to Item 2 (with the valve disconnected) ?

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Telf

With the valve in place ( so going from the start of the small pipe on top of the tank smoke vented at the output of item 2. I'm my case a pipe just below the bumper. Other than that no leaks apparent

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PhilNW

Are you concluding that the tank is not pressurising and it is venting properly via item 2 and therefore not a vapour/tank issue.

 

So where on the car and under what circumstances are you when you smell petrol ? Driving, ticking over, windows open/closed, engine switched off etc?

 

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Telf

Seems like the tank is ok? As far as I can tell.

 

As previously discussed on a different thread , windows open driving. It smells of fuel (originally thought exhaust but that's been fully sealed). Wideband lambda says it's running lean at about 15.3 unless accelerating then it drops to 13 ish. So apparently not over fuelling.

 

All lines are new. No sign of a leak. 

 

God knows 

  Going to replace the fuel cap and see if that helps . After it's run you can definately smell fuel at the cap. Maybe the seal has had it.

 

The wideband controller isn't wired into the emerald ECU . Will try connecting that and see if it helps. I doubt it tbh.

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Telf

Windows closed no smell. Every gap, hole etc has been sealed or taped over . As soon as you crack a window you will smell something. Sometimes immediately sometimes after a while. Seems to depend on wind direction to an extent. At motorway speed it's not noticeable. More so at 30 and below

Edited by Telf

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PhilNW

Sounds like the classic internal pressurisation via the fresh air vents/heater which goes when the windows are down and smells enter the cabin.

 

I had this when the rubber pipes at the top of fuel pump where deteriorating, suggest you might have similar somewhere. I replaced the short lengths of pipe with proper high pressure fuel pipe and no more smells.

 

Taping over holes does not necessarily stop the fumes, grommets/rubber bungs/oil resistant sealant are better.  

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Telf

When I say taped over its proper heavy duty plastic environmental sealant tape . Just been sat in the car . Wrapped blue cloth round the injectors , fuel filter connections , common rail input and output left it idling 10mins. 

 

Removed cloth looking for signs of wetting/leak - nothing.

 

With the engine hot you can see the AFR reading in the pic. 14.2 to 14.5. so it's not rich. 

 

All the fuel pipes are new from Baker. Not deteriorated so I can't see them being an issue.

 

 

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PhilNW

Have you checked fuel pressures?

 

Just wondering if high fuel pressures could be causing a leak when car under high loads.

 

Dont think it would show on the AFR reading as the system would probably compensate.

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Telf

I think the pressure is pretty much constant at 3 bar so I don't think so

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Telf

I've wired in my lambda sensor so the ECU can read it and operate in closed loop mode. This should mean it tries to maintain optimal AFR . I think? I need to add these values to the ECU AFR table. It's an AEM controller and a Emerald ECU. Has anyone done this ?

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Telf

Well I've has a play with the emerald , copied a few settings from the manual and the ECU and controller now seem to be communicating. Had to copy the AFR target from the emerald PDF. No idea about the corrections page and the setting also copied. 

 

Seems to be working . Dunno. Probably blow the engine up next!

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PhilNW
12 hours ago, Telf said:

I think the pressure is pretty much constant at 3 bar so I don't think so

Clutching at straws but have you checked it to see how it varies under load

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Telf

Ive had a massive play around with the MAP today. Specifically the AFR targets now the car is operating in a closed loop.

 

First pic is my initial attempt. This afternoon i took it for a drive with the laptop plugged in and noted the load and speed sites for everyday driving- so for me 30mph 5th gear, 60 mph 5th gear and 70.

 

Ive then set the AFR targets at those load/speed points to be AFR 14.7 for 30mph and 60 mph. for 70mph i had to massively mess around adding the 15.0 area-essentially leaning it out at low throttle/higher speed cruise.

 

Also this zone is the area it drops into when you let off the throttle at high speeds and the injectors seem to cut to zero.

 

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image.png.6eebdfbc03b3e06c9fa0dd0ef95f71ca.png

 

 

I think it actually might be 'smelling' less funky now- its hard to tell as the interior smells quite bad- i could do ith something to make them fresh again!

 

 

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Telf

Having driven the car a few miles now there is a definite improvement so maybe I've been wrong all along and it was MAP related.

 

With the AFR controller providing feedback to the ECU the incidence of smelling any bad smell has dropped dramatically.

 

The hour of live adjustment on Saturday has helped.

 

I think I will now trust the adaptive mode and see what recommendations it throws up in terms of the fuel MAP.

 

Only taken a year . Emerald won't have it that the car needs this but I'm verging on the opinion that yes they have tuned it for power etc but given not much thought to everyday driving.

 

 

I'll have another go and report back

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Daniel306

Should not really be using closed loop at Idle or 100%.

 

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Daniel306

This is what I use, so it's only in adaptive for normal driving

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Edited by Daniel306
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