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dogbreath

205GLD Brake Failure

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dogbreath

Hi. used my trusty diesel pug the other day for the first time in the best part of 6 months. Drove to work ok 18 miles but on way back brake pedal to the floor and no brakes at all. Managed to limp home using hand brake. 

Checked and fluid pouring out of reat brake drum. 

Could it merely be a replacement rear wheel cylinderneeded, or would the front brakes still work? 

Any advice helpful. 

Am going to replace rear cylinder and bleed the system this evening. 

Thanks, Steve.

 

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welshpug

fronts should be fine though if it got as far as no pedal at all it would be wise to bleed the front as well as the rear brake, and check the opposing wheel cylinder.

 

likely to be of the same age and not far off leaking as well, if it has soaked the brake shoes you may need to replace these too.

to i.d the cylinder look at the shape of the area that pokes through the backplate and the orientation of the pipe entry and nipple location.

 

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jackherer

In my experience the pedal does drop to the floor when just one corner leaks. In theory the dual circuits should stop that happening but for some reason it doesn't seem to work in the real world.

 

If the pedal has gone to the floor and the master cylinder is old it'll probably need replacing too. The seals push past the wear points and fail so you then end up bleeding it repeatedly but never getting a firm pedal because some of the fluid is just going back past the seals into the reservoir.

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Tom Fenton

I'll add to the above, I'd consider changing the master cylinder, if it got to no brakes at all, then there's a chance the master cyl seals aren't up to much, as you should have had at least some brake effort from the other circuits. In the grand scheme of things they are not a lot of money, about £35.

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dogbreath

the replacement cylinder is like the one photo'd where the bleed nipple is adjacent to the input (so handed) and NOT above.

is that girling or bendix as i ordered replacement girling shoes but i think they are the wrong on

Enclosed pic of correct cylinder

IMG_09321.JPG

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Tom Fenton

I can't recommend Brakes International enough, I use them for the majority of my brake bits now, doesn't look like you are far away from them, they have shops in Bolton and Rochdale. Their online catalogue is very good or give them a ring they are very helpful.

 

I think you need Bendix rear shoes for a diesel.

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welshpug

I would second the reccomendation for Brakes International, their website said no to buying a single piston for my Girlfriends 5 ton merc sprinter but a quick call and a single piston and a caliper seal kit was on its way.

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Ozymandis

Thats a handed self regulating Bendix wheel cylinder, be aware there are differing diameter ones ,depending on if you do or dont have a servo.

Servo is 19mm, non servo is 20mm.

The thread sizes differ, that ones a 12x1mm You need to match the tube nuts on the existing brake pipes.

I seond changing the other wheel cylinder and the master cylinder, they will be on their last legs .

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/UNIPART-BRAKE-SHOES-CITROEN-SAXO-PEUGEOT-106-205-309-90R-01042-181-GBS1267AF/133203918789?hash=item1f03927fc5:g:eVUAAOSwWktdpdrC

 

Those are the shoes to match that wheel cylinder You have.

 

Some diesels do have Girling (not yours) and they use servoed, handed,self regulating, 19mm diameter cylinders with an oval location boss, oval hole in the backplate, and narrower shoes than a GTI

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dogbreath

can someone point right master cylinder to order? thanks

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Ozymandis

To go with that servoed, handed, 19mm wheel cylinder You have, you need a 19mm 3 outlet one.

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Peugeot-205-NOS-19-05mm-Brake-Master-Cylinder/323468676086?hash=item4b503c4bf6:g:JBAAAOSwGFxZef3t

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Borg-Beck-Brake-Master-Cylinder-BBM4178-GENUINE-5-YEAR-WARRANTY/153216176713?fits=Car+Make%3APeugeot%7CModel%3A205&epid=248797451&hash=item23ac655249:g:cgQAAOSwcbRbwLdM

 

 

Such as these, many have 4 outlets and are supplied with simple blanking plugs to screw into any ports that arent used in Your particular application.

 

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dogbreath

The supplied cylinders are 20mm ones which appear to be the larger ones for the non servo brake system. can i fit them temporarily or will it cause issues? steve

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Ozymandis

Dont do it, get the correct cylinders.

PSA knew what they were doing when designing it.

 

I think there are loads of old stock 20mm ones floating about  nobody ever used them as none servoed ones were rare.

 

Send em back to swap for the right ones?

Or if it was your error bin em and accept You have learned a thing or two?

 

Unbalanced  braking is a liability in an emergency stop. I presume Your going to be on public roads, obviously if You die in a fireball thats Your choice but what about the pram pushing lady who you stamped on the pedal for?

 

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dogbreath

fitted replacement rear shoes and cylinders and bled them . my little puglet is driving great. nice positive pedal. will get the servo and replace it too. Got a snapped bleed nipple on NSF caliper. Will try heating and extracting if possible or get a refurb? not sure which way to go. 

Thanks for advice

steve

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Tom Fenton

Buy a recon caliper, I've tried many many times to get sheared nipples out of the Bendix alloy calipers, success rate about 10%. The steel nipple corrodes badly to the aluminium alloy body. The 1.9 GTI rears suffer from this all the time.

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DamirGTI

I usually take them out by welding the nut on top of the snapped bleeder ... doesn't always go by first attempt , but after 2-3 times try it works .. drilling and easy out/extractor only makes mess and risks of snapping the extractor in or damaging the cone shaped bleeder orifice on the bottom by drilling , after which you can throw the caliper in the trash .

 

Also , if it's snapped but doesn't leak - leave it ... and bleed that side via rubber flex hose on the caliper end .

 

D

Edited by DamirGTI

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Ozymandis

I have a repair method for sheared bleed nipples in alloy calipers.

 

You need a vice,  a hacksaw,  a file,  an m8 tap and drill,  an m8 hex head setscrew,  an 8mm copper washer and a small dill 1/16"or 2mm ish.

 

Drill and tap the bust nipple 8mm, cut your screw down to fit in with the copper washer, dress the sealing face for the washer with the file, then drill the screw from the inside to nearly the head, dress a flat spot on the thread just under the head and then drill in to meet the other hole.

Takes 1/2hr  and is a long lasting repair.

 

Obviously You cant vacuum bleed anymore.

Edited by Ozymandis
spelling

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dogbreath

interestingly i have a couple of spare pairs of bendix front calipers I accumulated when i first got my 1.6GTi. They have  different part numbers to the ones on my GLD, so i assumed they were not interchangeable. AM I wrong? can they all be used on any variant? 

Thanks

 

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Ozymandis

A GTI has wider thicker vented discs, so the cast iron pad yoke is a bit wider.

 

If the hydraulic alloy part is good ie no snapped nipples, stripped threads etc, you can swap that over to your existing none vented cast iron yoke, originally it will have pentagonal bolt heads so you have to buy a weird size socket. Its quite OK to use regular hex head 8.8 bolts when you rebuild.

Alternatively use regular vented discs as on a 1.9 GTI these are common to loads of PSA group cars and cheap.

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3pc-1-2-Brake-Socket-Set-Pentagon-Bit-For-Girling-Bendix-Systems-Garage-Tool/254225696139?hash=item3b3108458b:g:gOYAAOSwOmBc1FQv

 

Its the 19mm one You need.

Edited by Ozymandis

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