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stef205

vague steering

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stef205

Hi all,

My 205 has been suffering with understeer / vague steering. Happens at cruising and accelerating speeds (part throttle and wot) I seem to have to put alot of input into the steering before the car reacts. I will list below what the car has and remedies i have tried. 

Std gti subframe
17mm gti arb with std links 

bilstein coilovers with tarmac inserts (1k miles old)
225 -250lb springs ( i believe but i did buy them second hand) 

ab motorsport solid top mounts with camber and caster adjustment

xsara vts ph1 rack, new pinion bearings seals etc. New inner and out tre's

106 pas pump/motor driving the rack ram

309 gti wishbones with floflex bushes 

1.9 hubs 

3j plated diff. Rebuilt around 2k ago 30/90 ramps and 75ftlb preload as advised by 3j 

 

309 tube with soild mounts 

22mm tbs 

27mm arb 

 

195/50/15 yoko ad08s tyres


If im honest this has only come about since the coilovers on the front and since the rack went in. I have tried many geo changes as i have access to tracking gauges at work, Ive tried toe in, toe out and parallel. The beam was rebuilt not long ago and give .5 toe in.

 

If any one has any ideas im willing to try. 

Thanks Stef 

 

 

 

 

 

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Tom Fenton

Poly wishbone bushes just don’t work on 205’s, can’t really give a reason why, but every one I’ve ever driven with them in has been crap. Like a few things, Peugeot got the standard bushes right.

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petert

What front alignment numbers?

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stef205
8 hours ago, petert said:

What front alignment numbers?

-1.2 camber 

I've tried from - 1 to +2 toe 

 

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petert

and caster?

 

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stef205

cant remember but its adjusted as far forward as possible.

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petert

Well that could be the issue, negative caster.  Either that or the bushes. You need to lay the top of the strut back towards the firewall as far as you can. If it's road car, keep the toe at -1mm toe in and the camber at -1.5 deg. max. Giving it as much positive caster as possible will induce more camber on turn in and help return to centre.

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stef205

OK thanks there isn't any play in anywhere but I'll give that suggestion a go 

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allanallen

Yep, top mounts are set completely wrong! They don’t have enough Castor as it is so this will be massively detrimental to the handling. 
 

Check, check and re-check Bbj holes. 

Check what you’re springs actually are, 250lb is too firm for 22mm bars but you know that already from our previous conversations. 

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stef205

What spring rate would you recommend? 

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welshpug

im not so sure it would be too firm as the old PTS tarmac rates were 225 front and 21mm bars, gravel was 185 with 19 or 20mm bars from memory, and you have a heavier engine by a fair margin with all your stuff bolted to an iron block twincam.

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stef205

Previously I had some koni adjustables and some apex springs and it was fine untill the change iirc 

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allanallen

Your apex springs will have been under 150lbs.
I know you’ve got a lot more weight over the front but You’ve increased rear spring rate by 60/70lbs and increased the front by possibly well north of 100lbs, what do you expect that to do to the balance of the car. 
 

id sort your top mounts and bushes and see what it’s like. 

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petert
16 hours ago, stef205 said:

What spring rate would you recommend? 

250-300lbs without a doubt. 22mm bars are 20% stiffer than 21mm.

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stef205

thanks all i hope to get it back on the gauges this week and adjust 

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stef205

So Ive had the car on the tracking gauges again and adjusted the top mounts to give as much positive caster as possible. 

I've attached a picture of the results, also remeasured with the gauges a few times to check it was true and checked the Ramp was level aswell. 

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/29oxxeg6pwofgid/IMG_20191024_164631.jpg?dl=0

 

I'm abit concerned with the lack of caster giving that standard is 3. 

 

Any pointers to help increase this? I starting to think along the lines of a bent subframe?? 

 

Stef

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j_turnell

The castor is low although not a million miles away side to side so I wouldn’t think that your subframe is bent as I’d expect there to be a bigger discrepancy. 
 

I would say half a deg of toe out is to much though. Will make the front end a bit skittish although should make turn in sharper. 
 

what top mounts are you using? The other option would be tubular adjustable wishbones so you can move the bottom ball joint further forward to add castor. 
 

Have you tried disconnecting a drop link to see how it is without the roll bar? This might help with your increase in front spring rate relative to the back. 

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petert

Could you please post a picture of one of the top mounts? I want to see the position of the centre of the shock.

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welshpug

by the look of that its about standard, you need to turn them so the other slots are doing the caster adjustment.

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petert

They aren't giving much adjustment. As Welshpug suggests, rotating them 90º would have the longer slots doing the caster. Which means you'd need to re-drill the mounting bolt holes. The centre of the shock needs to be at the intersection of the yellow lines (approx).

Screen Shot 2019-10-28 at 7.58.18 am.png

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petert

You need top mounts like this.

Screen Shot 2019-10-31 at 3.42.37 pm.png

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stef205

Any more info on those mounts? 

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stef205

Ah not practical for me then. I'll try redrill what I have. 

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