Do all aftermarket EMS's need the same component upgrades?

[soundguy 13]

What do I need to know before looking at getting a conversion done on an XU+BE3 205? Do the different systems need different components to support them?

 

After a chat with OpticalTrigger I'm looking at Speeduino, but I'd like to try to find out a bit more of what's involved, what the total parts cost would be, and the install/labour costs might be, so I can see what sort of budget will be needed.

 

Can anyone give an overview of the necessary prep work please?

Edited August 28, 2019 by soundguy

[welshpug 1,621]

most will want some form of crank trigger, which unless you start with a motronic engine will not be present though easy to add in the form of a standard 60-2 flywheel and sensor,   standard throttle switch is just that, a switch, so adapting to a zx/bx motronic mp3.1 tps is an option, and lastly the coil needs changing, zx 1.9 volcane plug leads and coil works, get the thermostat housing as well and you have somewhere to bolt it down, same housing as the 8v xu10's and all the 8v xu7 (afaik, dont think any had  a dizzy)   as well as late auto xu5/9 on spi/mpi

[Anthony 1,000]

As Mei said above, but you'll also need an separate air temperature sensor assuming that you're junking the AFM (air temp sensor is integrated into the AFM) - standard 2 pin Bosch air temp sensors used on loads of 90's European cars are fine.

 

I've no experience with a Speeduino, but it would be worth looking at mapping prior to going down that route as I suspect many mappers will have little experience of mapping it and/or may be unwilling to do so.

[welshpug 1,621]

forgot about that one!  zx mp3.1 is jixe, 12x1.5 threaded

[soundguy 13]

"zx mp3.1 is jixe"

 

What does jixe mean? Does zx mp3.1 refer to a Bosch sensor with a 12x1.5 thread?

[opticaltrigger 52]

Hi Guy's, haven't been very active of late, domestic life has been a bit full. 

 

Anyway, I was lurking out here and caught this, so I thought I'd chime in a thought on these Speeduino's as I thought it might help in some small way.

Before I get started........ This is probably going to be another one of those keyboard happy rambles that I do now and again so it might not be for everyone, so my apologies in advance to those that don't like walls of text.

 

Ok, I've had the good fortune to have had a bit of a play with these of late. The last one was a really, really nasty hack into a 1997 SLK Kompressor wiring loom, basically just to get it mobile.

In that particular case, although it really was a very nasty hack of a job. It was actually quite easy because all the appropriate OEM sensors mentioned above are of course already there for you. You just find the wires, Google the various parameters for that engine, and your done.

For a map, as this was just to get it mobile again and to a point where it could go on the rollers. I just spent a morning Googling essential SLK parameters such as firing order, injector flow rates etc. Then the actual map itself was just some roughly sensible numbers I punched in for AFR and timing on a boosted engine. The basic building blocks of those two tables are fairly common across many engines.

 

On our engines, the only extra step is that the required sensors aren't there and need to be mounted. Fortunately, as Mei and Anthony have touched on above, we also for the most part, have the availability of OEM stuff, which really isn't any big thing to install.

I think from memory that the throttle shaft needs trimming a bit to fit the new TPS over it, but with a 4.5" cutting disc and a tape measure, it's easy enough to deal with. And popping a threaded hole in the side of the inlet manifold for an IAT sensor isn't that difficult either. Also, as Mei has said above, an OEM flywheel and sensor makes it even easier, or use an off the shelf pulley mounted trigger wheel.

 

Speeduino,

The important thing to mention first with these is that it's not "ECU Master" and it's not "Fuel Tech". And it's only £150.  Really......... Only 150 quid.

I'll get the down's out there first. (And there's not many.)

The main plugs aren't very good at all really. That said it's only 150 quid and it's very cheap and easy to improve on that part...

And honestly guy's, for the money it would be an injustice to say there was anything else seriously wrong with it really.

 

Upsides are obviously the cost and in terms of it's functionality, it's actually ok to be honest. The timing resolution is only down to individual whole degrees but that's still vastly better than the stock stuff in terms of it's accuracy, and unless your in pursuit of the finest timing trims money can buy, it's more than adequate.

The fuelling side of things follows a very familiar and standard format found in most standalones. It also supports a few other common niceties such as sequential everything, launch control, nitrous control, and flat shift etc.

Plus it's open source so there's regular updates and lot's of interesting add on's available, like your instruments on a tablet, drive by wire throttle etc, etc. The online support is really, really good actually.

 

To sum it up.

Personally,,, I really like it.

As an entry level standalone at £150 a shout, it's great...  It does everything that you could possibly want from a modern EFI solution, and it does it very well to be honest.

It's that flexible, and cheap enough, that I'm currently about to stick another one on a single cylinder bike engine and replace it's carb with an EFI throttle body. 

 

It's a personal opinion here, but yea'h,, it get's my vote twice over guy's and I can't recommend them enough for 150 quid.........

 

All the very best guy's,

O.T.

 

 

Edited September 5, 2019 by opticaltrigger

[Thijs_Rallye 86 4 Cars]

For $175 you can buy an ostrich and program the OEM Motronic ecu yourself in realtime. Can't beat the reliability of an OEM ecu imho.

[opticaltrigger 52]

3 hours ago, Thijs_Rallye said:

For $175 you can buy an ostrich and program the OEM Motronic ecu yourself in realtime. Can't beat the reliability of an OEM ecu imho.

Totally agree with you Thijs.

Another excellent recommendation for modern EFI. And definitely a great choice for reliability.

There's quite allot of options out there at the moment, which is great to see. The cost of this stuff is just plummeting downwards and the options just keep increasing...

 

Great shout Thijs, might grab one myself just for my own amusement. 

Do you know which Motronic versions it's compatible with....

 

All the best,

O.T.

 

[Thijs_Rallye 86 4 Cars]

Anything from full 921.6k speed, from 4k (2732A) up to 512k (4mbit 29F040) and everything in between (27C128, 27C256, 27C512).

https://www.moates.net/ostrich-20-the-new-breed-p-169.html

 

Be aware that you'll need more hardware like an EPROM reader / burner and hell of a lot of time reverse engineering the ROM dump ;). Eventually you will have the same freedom as with a stand alone, but then with supreme hardware (imho). It is probably best to first start reading (i.e. ecu connections, tunerpro forum) before you jump in the rabbit hole.
 

I've got it working with my Motronic 1.3 (XU9JAZ), and the Ostrich is compatible with a Marelli IAP 10/48 as well. Basically anything with the above mentioned EPROMS.

[opticaltrigger 52]

2 hours ago, Thijs_Rallye said:

Anything from full 921.6k speed, from 4k (2732A) up to 512k (4mbit 29F040) and everything in between (27C128, 27C256, 27C512).

https://www.moates.net/ostrich-20-the-new-breed-p-169.html

 

Be aware that you'll need more hardware like an EPROM reader / burner and hell of a lot of time reverse engineering the ROM dump ;). Eventually you will have the same freedom as with a stand alone, but then with supreme hardware (imho). It is probably best to first start reading (i.e. ecu connections, tunerpro forum) before you jump in the rabbit hole.
 

I've got it working with my Motronic 1.3 (XU9JAZ), and the Ostrich is compatible with a Marelli IAP 10/48 as well. Basically anything with the above mentioned EPROMS.

Interesting,,, I use TunerPro for editing the files on my Motronic ME7.5's which I check sum, correct, and burn with the Neff Moto flasher utility. (It's excellent)

I agree with you though, that one really is a steep learning curve...  Standalones,,, I find that there much more intuitive for the mind to take in. The OEM stuff is beautiful but an entirely different approach.

 

With soundguy's thing though,  With his particular project, and what he wants from it.

I think a little unit like Speduino is ideal for that task. I forgot to mention earlier, but when I had that last one in for the hack job on the SLK, I took it to bits first and had a really good look at the PCB... And it's fine, no different construction methodology to any other quality commercial board. Also, I really did look at the SMC's on the board and then google them to see there tolerances and there all good to. Another great bonus is that it uses Tuner Studio to edit it with, which is also another great program.

It's just a decent bit of kit for the money really, I don't like those connector plugs on it though.

 

That said, the world has become so strange these days, that if it had forty quids worth of case and connectors thrown at it...  Strangely, it would cost as much as a Megasquirt does.

 

All the best,

O.T.

 

[Thijs_Rallye 86 4 Cars]

If you are familiar with TunerPro and have been able to create your own XDF for a ME7.5 you should be able to get the 1.3 going as well :). If I personally were going the aftermarket route I'd never go for a Speedduino or MS on a street car, but that's just personal. 

 

Made the mistake once with going for a Nodiz blinded by initial costs on our trackcar and in retrospect regretted it often why we didn't just buy an ignition only DTA or similar. It works fine though, but certain limitations were more and are than annoying. (no crank/start map for instance) These things you find out after you've bought, installed and start running it. There is much more needed than just a WOT / part load and an idle map to have a street engine behave decent under all circumstances.

Edited September 7, 2019 by Thijs_Rallye

[Tom Fenton 1,524]

Find some where you trust to map it when done, find out which ECU’s they deal with and have experience of, use one of those.

 

[Simes 248 2 Cars]

Have a look at my build thread, it should all be there.