Jump to content
  • Welcome to 205GTIDrivers.com!

    Hello dear visitor! Feel free to browse but we invite you to register completely free of charge in order to enjoy the full functionality of the website.

dt_

1.6 auto head gasket change

Recommended Posts

dt_

Hey guys, sourced some parts for the job and have got most of the parts off the engine ready for head removal.  I've got a couple of questions though, if anyone is able to offer advice. 

 

Not sure how to attack the upper engine mount, it seems to fit through the block and the head, what's the best way to go about removing this?

 

Another one, part of me is considering buying another head and building it up in case the one fitted is cracked or excessively warped, and the only heads that seem to be for sale are GTi ones, would this work ok? (And maybe give a little power boost who knows)

 

Last one for now, what torx size are the standard head bolts?

 

Car is carb fed so no worries about wiring or anything daft like that, so job should be pretty straightforward.  Cheers for any help

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Johno

I have this issue at the moment I have just bought another low mileage engine and gunna chick that in and as for heads the gti one isn’t much diffremt and tbh a lot of the auto engines are snapped up by gti owners because they have the high lift cam in them for the auto box so just take your cam out and put on new head or buy new/used engine mate I have just got a low mileage engine and box less than 200 squids lol 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
dt_

High lift cam, interesting, was under the impression that it was a de tuned low compression 'gti' engine, without the 'i' , featuring smaller valves and a milder cam.  Not sure though, I'll just crack on with it and see how the head is.  I've looked in, and a couple of the inlet valves look pretty built up with carbon so will see how I get on.

 

Thought the auto engine was popular more because it was lower compression (better suitability for a turbo conversion maybe) and generally less abused and therefore better condition blocks for GTi rebuilds

Edited by dt_

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Tom Fenton

I wouldn't make it complicated. Its a simple job really. Remove the head. Have it skimmed. Have the machine shop check the valves seats and guides for you whilst it is off. Refit with new gaskets and head bolts.

 

No "high lift cam" in an auto engine by the way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Thijs_Rallye
On 2/4/2019 at 6:43 PM, dt_ said:

Last one for now, what torx size are the standard head bolts?

Torx 70

 

On 2/6/2019 at 2:16 AM, Johno said:

I have this issue at the moment I have just bought another low mileage engine and gunna chick that in and as for heads the gti one isn’t much diffremt and tbh a lot of the auto engines are snapped up by gti owners because they have the high lift cam in them for the auto box so just take your cam out and put on new head or buy new/used engine mate I have just got a low mileage engine and box less than 200 squids lo

I nearly passed oud reading this. Some punctuation would be nice.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Tom Fenton
1 hour ago, Thijs_Rallye said:

Torx 70

 

 

No. Torx 55

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Thijs_Rallye
5 hours ago, Tom Fenton said:

 

No. Torx 55

Must've been the lack of oxygen, you are absolutely right. I'm sorry for the misinformation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
dt_

No worries cheers everyone, got the right bit for the bolts, all going well, just can't get the upper engine mount off!  Access to those bolts down the side is impossible almost

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Tom Fenton

It is tricky. Remove the top of the engine mount and support the engine on a jack carefully jack it up to give you more access. A 16mm ring spanner is useful due to the shape of the casting.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
dt_

Tried that but the cam sprocket is catching on the master cylinder and stopping it from going any higher.  Ring spanner is a good shout, but withdrawing the bolts will be tricky 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ozymandis

The bolts can stay in the casting rather than be withdrawn individually, undo more engine mountings and pull/push/lift/lower it about if you need to raise it further.It is possible , more jacks and wood if you havent any way of suspending it, where are You doing it Dan?

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
dt_

It's in my brothers garage over in Doncaster, so it's a bit of a trek each time but hey ho.  So if those bolts only go into the head by a few mm then they can stay in the casting.  I'll be over there this Wednesday for round 2 with extra tools and knowledge

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
dt_

A productive day today, the head is off!  Took a load of pictures, some of them are a tad shaky as my arms were pretty tired from it, and maybe all the coffee I drank, who knows.  I'll be honest I thought it would be more obvious which cylinder(s) have been leaking, the symptom being combustion gases in the coolant, but I can't make it out, all 4 fire rings seem intact.  The rest of the gasket is toast however so no worries.  The head bolts were absolutely blathered in copper slip, would they have done that from the factory, or does it corroborate with what the previous owner said, which was 'my mechanic did loads of stuff to the top of the engine' and suggest that maybe the head has been off once before?

 

Pics coming soon

Edited by dt_

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
dt_

IMG-20190213-WA0002.jpg

 

Here's the head, with a 'VI' casting, what's this mean?

 

IMG-20190213-WA0011.jpg

 

There she is, looking sorry for herself complete with tear in eye haha.  Anyone recognise that front valance? It's deeper than a gti one

 

IMG-20190213-WA0010.jpg

 

fire ring cylinder 4

 

IMG-20190213-WA0009.jpg

 

Fire ring cylinder 1, the two most knackered areas of the gasket

 

IMG-20190213-WA0008.jpg

 

The offending item, looked really melted/dissolved

 

IMG-20190213-WA0007.jpg

 

Whats with cyl 3 and 4 having such white valves?

 

IMG-20190213-WA0006.jpg

 

4

 

IMG-20190213-WA0005.jpg

 

3

 

IMG-20190213-WA0003 (1).jpg

 

2

 

IMG-20190213-WA0003.jpg

 

This should be cylinder 1 but I've uploaded the wrong photo.  Looks similar to this one.  All cylinders have what appear to be lots of honing marks remaining, would that indicate that the engine is in otherwise good nick?  A couple of them have ultra light scoring down the thrust side however

 

IMG-20190213-WA0004.jpg

 

Oh wait this is cylinder 1

 

IMG-20190213-WA0012.jpg

 

Block looking quite manky

 

IMG-20190213-WA0017.jpg

 

Bolts all laid out, each one of them came out beautifully

 

IMG-20190213-WA0015.jpg

 

 

Was pretty nervous at this point...

 

 

Edited by dt_
added text

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ozymandis

Coppa slips not original.

Is this the car with an unusual carb you were asking about a while ago?

If the heads been off for a previous gasket change, then its possible it is distorted , cracked or has corrosion damage, thus the first gasket to try and solve the problem?

Does it look like the head`s sealing face has been skimmed/machined?

A head gasket change is hardly routine maintenance so theres an existing previous problem .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ozymandis

Corrosion damage, by the look of your photos.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
dt_

Just had another look at it, there appears to be some machining marks; I'm seeing tiny curved scratches, and there is a slight lip in the metal on one side of the head, you can sort of ping your fingernail off it if you know what I mean.  Would it have had anything like this done during production?

 

Edit:  Yeah Jay, it's that same motor  

Edited by dt_

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ozymandis
46 minutes ago, dt_ said:

and there is a slight lip in the metal on one side of the head, you can sort of ping your fingernail off it if you know what I mean.  Would it have had anything like this done during production?

Not sure what You mean, clean it up a bit and show us a  piccie.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
dt_

It's kind of hard to make out, looks like some kind of machining mark to me, but not sure

IMG_20190213_215353.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Miles

Bumper is just a dealer option, The white valves is where the water has got in, Head as said been off before and skimmed so the block could be the issue along with liner heights, But that is a later spec engine as the top of the block is bigger and has the GTi type head

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ozymandis

looks to me like  lack of, or under strength anti-freeze hence no corrosion inhibitors and the rot has set in.

Clean up the block and liners and check that all`s well in that area, the liners are supposed to project a certain amount from the block to ensure good fireseals when its all crushed down.

Do you have a manual?  Dont disturb the liners unless You intend to strip it further.

The rotten head gasket looks to be the problem from the piccies.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
dt_

Ok guys thanks again for all your advice.  I have not to my knowledge disturbed the liners, they all looked level and I'd rather not mess with that, I need this car out of that garage this year! 

 

So it's a GTi type head, does that mean it's a GTi head, or that it's the same casting as a GTi but with different valves and cam?  Just wondering if it's likely to be the original head.

 

Bit of a newbie question, will I need to remove cam and valvegear before taking it for a skim?  Also the inlet valve on cylinder 3 (open) has a very small amount of side to side movement, I'd say maybe half a millimetre, is this normal or does it indicate a need for a replacement valve guide?   Thanks again

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Tom Fenton

You are obviously pretty new to all this, so I think you'd be better to give the head complete to an engine recon place, and let them assess what is needed. A skim as a minimum, but like you say it may well need some work to the valve guides and seats, and the cam re shimming. You can take the head complete and they will do what is needed. I can recommend Rotherham Engine Supplies on Roman Ridge Road in Sheffield if you can't find anywhere closer to home. They can do the work required and also supply you a gasket set and new head bolts.

 

Not sure if you know but the head bolts are a stretch bolt, 1 use only, so bin those old ones and buy new. Don't throw away the spacers as they don't come with new bolts, also note the large cotton reel type spacer that fits rear left as you look at the engine.

 

It makes it a bit easier to split the downpipe from the exhaust manifold, then you can fit the exhaust manifold to the head on the bench, and then re fit it as one lump to the engine. Its easier than way than doing the gaskets and exhaust manifold studs/nuts from underneath the car.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
dt_

Yeah I know about the bolts, I have a fresh set ready to go on, only thing is the threads are different, the new bolts I have are threaded right to the bottom, whereas the old bolts had a bit of thread, a gap, then more thread, then a gap, then a bit more thread.  Was really struggling with the exhaust bolts, I actually found it much easier to remove the manifold and leave it there, all the nuts came off really easily which was a surprise 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
jackherer
3 hours ago, Tom Fenton said:

also note the large cotton reel type spacer that fits rear left as you look at the engine.

That cannot be over-emphasised.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×